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u/tuberousplant · 32 pointsr/neoliberal

Milton Friedman speaks fairly eloquently on the topic of trade and tariffs. I'll post a mixture of his statements on the issue of free-trade and the promotion of it, as well as his thoughts on tariffs as a matter of protecting industries to allow it to gain a temporary advantage over other countries, thus creating employment in the process.

> Today, as always, there is much support for tariffs–euphemistically labeled “protection,” a good label for a bad cause. Producers of steel and steelworkers' unions press for restrictions on steel imports from Japan. Producers of TV sets and their workers lobby for “voluntary agreements” to limit imports of TV sets or components from Japan, Taiwan, or Hong Kong. Producers of textiles, shoes, cattle, sugar–they and myriad others complain about “unfair” competition from abroad and demand that government do something to “protect” them. Of course, no group makes its claims on the basis of naked self-interest. Every group speaks of the “general interest,” of the need to preserve jobs or to promote national security. The need to strengthen the dollar vis-à-vis the deutsche mark or the yen has more recently joined the traditional rationalizations for restrictions on imports.

As stated, trade tariffs which are often lobbied for and advocated by certain groups of people commonly make the argument that it is in the self-interest of the general population. The contrary is true: it is in the interest of a select group of people to have tariffs raised or implemented or have subsidies granted under the guise of competitiveness and efficiency. If a U.S. manufacturer is 2x less effective than a Japanese manufacturer at creating a certain good, is it the right decision to subsidize this manufacturer in order to raise its level of competitiveness versus the Japanese one? I would say no. As will be discussed later, jobs lost in export industry are gained in import industry, which is a point often forgotten. Americans will still desire cars or televisions even if there are no American manufacturers to produce said products. New jobs and business in import will appear to fill this employment gap and to provide for the consumer what they desire.

> One voice that is hardly ever raised is the consumer’s. That voice is drowned out in the cacophony of the “interested sophistry of merchants and manufacturers” and their employees. The result is a serious distortion of the issue. For example, the supporters of tariffs treat it as self evident that the creation of jobs is a desirable end, in and of itself, regardless of what the persons employed do. That is clearly wrong. If all we want are jobs, we can create any number–for example, have people dig holes and then fill them up again or perform other useless tasks. Work is sometimes its own reward. Mostly, however, it is the price we pay to get the things we want. Our real objective is not just jobs but productive jobs–jobs that will mean more goods and services to consume.

Countries should produce goods of which they have the comparative advantage in producing. This is low hanging fruit but a good example of this. Why should Canada outsource the production of postage boxes to Belgium when we could readily manufacture them in Canada? If it is inefficient for us to do so then we should not do so, if we can get the good for cheaper elsewhere then we should strive to do that and to produce goods at which we are more effective. If a lawyer is 10x more efficient than practicing law than his secretary and also 2x a faster typist, should the lawyer do both jobs? No, of course not. The lawyer should practice law as comparatively he has the advantage in doing so, and let his secretary do the typing. The argument should not be surrounding the "creation of jobs", but the creation of jobs that are meaningful and more productive and beneficial for our population to be employed in.

> Another fallacy seldom contradicted is that exports are good, imports bad. The truth is very different. We cannot eat, wear, or enjoy the goods we send abroad. We eat bananas from Central America, wear Italian shoes, drive German automobiles, and enjoy programs we see on our Japanese TV sets. Our gain from foreign trade is what we import. Exports are the price we pay to get imports. As Adam Smith saw so clearly, the citizens of a nation benefit from getting as large a volume of imports as possible in return for its exports or, equivalently, from exporting as little as possible to pay for its imports.

Imports are not bad, and trade deficits are not (necessarily) bad. Nation A trades with Nation B, but Nation B also trades with Nation C, Nation C also trades with Nation A and thus Nation A's currency will return back to their country. Because of markets for foreign currency, it is desirable that we import goods and do not necessarily need large trade surpluses as an indicator of a strong performing economy. The worst case scenario in this example of three countries trading is that if Nation A's currency never returns back into the country. If you were to think of a country as a household, you would certainly wish to pay less to receive more than the other way around.

In fact, Friedman describes almost perfectly why people who believe that the reduction of tariffs will in fact hurt domestic industry are misguided:

> The fallacy in this argument is the loose use of the terms “high” wage and “low” wage. What do high and low wages mean? American workers are paid in dollars; Japanese workers are paid in yen. How do we compare wages in dollars with wages in yen? How many yen equal a dollar? What determines the exchange rate? Consider an extreme case. Suppose that, to begin with, 360 yen equal a dollar. At this exchange rate, the actual rate of exchange for many years, suppose that the Japanese can produce and sell everything for fewer dollars than we can in the United States–TV sets, automobiles, steel, and even soybeans, wheat, milk, and ice cream. If we had free international trade, we would try to buy all our goods from Japan. This would seem to be the extreme horror story of the kind depicted by the defenders of tariffs–we would be flooded with Japanese goods and could sell them nothing.

> Before throwing up your hands in horror, carry the analysis one step further. How would we pay the Japanese? We would offer them dollar bills. What would they do with the dollar bills? We have assumed that at 360 yen to the dollar everything is cheaper in Japan, so there is nothing in the U.S. market that they would want to buy. If the Japanese exporters were willing to burn or bury the dollar bills, that would be wonderful for us. We would get all kinds of goods for green pieces of paper that we can produce in great abundance and very cheaply. We would have the most marvelous export industry conceivable.

> Of course, the Japanese would not in fact sell us useful goods in order to get useless pieces of paper to bury or burn. Like us, they want to get something real in return for their work. If all goods were cheaper in Japan than in the United States at 360 yen to the dollar, the exporters would try to get rid of their dollars, would try to sell them for 360 yen to the dollar in order to buy the cheaper Japanese goods. But who would be willing to buy the dollars? What is true for the Japanese exporter is true for everyone in Japan. No one will be willing to give 360 yen in exchange for one dollar if 360 yen will buy more of everything in Japan than one dollar will buy in the United States. The exporters, on discovering that no one will buy their dollars at 360 yen, will offer to take fewer yen for a dollar. The price of the dollar in terms of the yen will go down–to 300 yen for a dollar or 250 yen or 200 yen. Put the other way around, it will take more and more dollars to buy a given number of Japanese yen. Japanese goods are priced in yen, so their price in dollars will go up. Conversely, U.S. goods are priced in dollars, so the more dollars the Japanese get for a given number of yen, the cheaper U.S. goods become to the Japanese in terms of yen.

> The price of the dollar in terms of yen would fall, until, on the average, the dollar value of goods that the Japanese buy from the United States roughly equaled the dollar value of goods that the United States buys from Japan. At that price everybody who wanted to buy yen for dollars would find someone who was willing to sell him yen for dollars.

The actual situation is much more complex than this overly simplified answer, but it gives a good explanation as to why free-trade and a reduction in tariffs is beneficial. We often ignore the presence and importance of currency exchange markets when it comes to trade.

u/[deleted] · 1 pointr/neoliberal

> Most economists believe capitalism is a compromise with selfish human nature. As Adam Smith put it, "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Capitalism works better than socialism, according to this thinking, only because we are not kind and generous enough to make socialism work. If we were saints, we would be socialists.

> In Why Not Capitalism?, Jason Brennan attacks this widely held belief, arguing that capitalism would remain the best system even if we were morally perfect. Even in an ideal world, private property and free markets would be the best way to promote mutual cooperation, social justice, harmony, and prosperity. Socialists seek to capture the moral high ground by showing that ideal socialism is morally superior to realistic capitalism. But, Brennan responds, ideal capitalism is superior to ideal socialism, and so capitalism beats socialism at every level.

For example

u/BenFoldsFourLoko · 98 pointsr/neoliberal

Most of my thoughts were already said! I'll post them anyway to add support though.

1) Since your state income tax is a flat tax, it would be entirely realistic to replace it with a Land Value Tax (LVT). It would be a yearly tax on the unimproved value of land. This encourages land use and development, and discourages vacant lots just sitting empty year after year, or, it would encourage the owner of an under-used land parcel to sell it to someone who would make use of it.

Plus, taxing the value of land holdings has better outcomes philosophically/ideologically than an income tax.

2) Get rid of most occupational licensing. The arguable benefits of occupational licensing (for most jobs) do not outweigh the clear negatives. It's a largely needless thing that just creates bureaucratic (not to bash bureaucrats!) and financial roadblocks to those wishing to enter a trade, while benefiting those already in place.

Plus, it's a bipartisan issue! Or it can be! It has been at the national level. You're much more likely to face resistance from interest groups than lawmaker's ideology.

3a) Zoning reform! It can be hard to do at the state level, and I'm not familiar with Colorado's regulations at the state or municipal levels, but zoning reform is beginning to catch fire across America.

The Obama White House put out a zoning reform toolkit in 2016 to destroy the NIMBYs help local leaders implement basic, but significant, zoning reforms.

3b) A few basics:

-abolish, or aggressively reduce, single-family zoning areas. If someone wants to build a fourplex or apartments, let them!

-abolish, or reduce, parking minimums at least in metro/core areas. Many businesses are forced to build more parking spaces than they want, which takes up valuable land in a city's economic and cultural center. It's a burden on businesses, it makes cities less walkable, it encourages driving, and it just takes up space. You can't build a new shop or apartments or theater or whatever where a required parking lot is.

-general upzoning- loosening height limits, allow denser housing along transit corridors, even provide incentives to build denser housing units

3c) Some plans to look at for inspiration:

-Minneapolis 2040. Minneapolis just undertook the most ambitious zoning reform in the country. It's been diluted somewhat, but is still tenacious. It can be an inspiration to all cities across America

-California's proposed SB 50 (useful illustration). This bill specifically is a state-level attempt at mandating certain zoning freedoms onto counties. It's awkward in that sense- I'm always hesitant for a state to force very local ideas onto its cities, but in this case I do believe it's entirely called for. Again, I don't know about Colorado's housing in general, but bad zoning is a pretty standard thing across the entire country.

-LA Times on SB 50

4) Drug decriminalization. I'm not sure how you would feel about pursuing something so controversial, but you guys were first to legalize pot, and Denver just de-prioritized psilocybin, so I figure this is worth a shot!

There can be two levels to this: recreational/criminal justice, and medical. We've been seeing legitimate medical studies, and FDA trials, lately regarding certain drugs', especially psychedelics', ability to treat mental health disorders. This isn't to say "legalize LSD so my husband can trip balls all day, because he has nightmares sometimes." This is to say... it's hard to do studies on these substances because of their legal status, and 1) They're the only thing so far that's shown promise in treating certain disorders, and 2) They show promise in treating some disorders better than the methods we have now- both in the sense of the treatment being more effective, and in the sense of less severe side effects.

I swear this isn't some "duuuude, pot cures cancer, mannn" bullshit.

-MDMA/ecstasy is being researched for its ability to treat PTSD. There's nothing certain yet, but results seem promising. After 1 year, over 70% of patients no longer met the definition for PTSD. It's moved on to FDA phase 3 trials.

-LSD microdosing is just starting to be studied. Participants take an amount of LSD that will not trigger any noticeable effects. There's much anecdotal reporting on its effects, but no good clinical data... hopefully that can change. In the first study from England, it was found that microdosing doesn't trigger noticeable effects, and that people on LSD could perceive or recall time spans more accurately. Nothing remarkable, but it's where we have to start.

-Psilocybin is being studied for its ability to treat a variety of mental health disorders, and more specifically "existential dread" in terminal cancer patients. Although some people don't agree it should be legalized today, it seems important to study.


Damn, writing these, I forgot my other two .-. if I remember, I'll edit later!

Lightning round:

-sanctuary state

-edit: mandatory vaccinations, or something comprehensive enough to ensure herd immunity in all groups. It's a public health issue. The only argument against mandatory vaccinations that I'm sympathetic to is religious liberty, especially for non-Western immigrants with deep cultural differences, or a lack of exposure to what Western medicine is... but the health risk is too serious to mess with.

-NUDGES, some people covered this really well already. For organ donation; 401k/pension plans; and virtually anything that someone has to re-sign up for that they'd typically do anyway; or for things that are good for people, but that people generally forget to sign up for. Always allow an opt-out, but when it's something people would generally want, just enroll them!

-edit: and school-to-trades pipelines! This is incredibly dependent on localities and the needs of each state, so again, idk what this looks like in Colorado.

But, getting high-schoolers who are thinking about the trades involved in apprenticeships and similar things in high school. Working with community colleges and local businesses to put systems in place to train local kids and workers. Let them do half a day at school, and half a day at a job site, or local tech college, or whatever.

The German system does this really well, though might go too far.

Get into high schools, and bring the idea of the trades to kids' attention while there's a clear chance to do so. And set up systems to get them trained and in a job. It's amazing what can be done if programs can just match kids with jobs.

Sorry this is so vague, but it's one of those issues that just requires tons of details, and the involvement of local government, local business, and local schools.

u/papermarioguy02 · 5 pointsr/neoliberal

Reposting this because I originally posted in the early morning on Sunday when not a whole lot of people would see it.

/u/papermarioguy02's reading list outline:

Several people have asked me about what things to read to get initiated in the stuff I'm interested in. I don't really think that I'm the best teaching resource, but I can at least list off the pieces of media that have influenced my thoughts to a certain extent. This is just an outline, and you should probably use /u/integralds' list as a more authoritative resource, he's not 14, but this is how I got where I am (I also don't 100% agree with all of the arguments presented on the reading list, but they have influenced me).


In Praise of Cheap Labor - Paul Krugman

The Obama Doctrine - Jeffery Goldberg

The Case for Reparations - Ta-Nehisi Coates

How Politics Makes us Stupid - Ezra Klein

What the Fox Knows - Nate Silver


Principles of Economics - Greg Mankiw

Thinking, Fast and Slow - Daniel Kahneman

International Economics: Theory and Policy - Paul Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld (READING STILL IN PROGRESS, and reading Princples of Economics or some other 101 textbook is probably a prerequisite here)

Capitalism and Freedom - Milton Friedman (READING IN PROGRESS, and again, you should probably read the 101 textbook before this one)

Non Print Stuff

Any of the Crash Course series hosted by John Green. They aren't anywhere near perfect, but they do a good job of introducing you to subjects, and giving some insight on how to think about some topics.

Any of Khan Academy's math stuff. All very good explanations of many different ideas

Grant Sanderson's Essence of Calculus series, a way of getting a good visual intuition for how some really important math works.


Again, this is just one 14 year old's list. I do not pretend to be authoritative or that anything here is perfect, but they are things that have influenced the way I've thought about things. This is still an outline, so I might add things here in the future.

u/emi_online · 3 pointsr/neoliberal

>Do you think there's no middle ground between foreigners showing up with guns and ships and taking your shit, and being separated from world trade?

Yes, I believe trade and foreign investment is that middle ground.

>Despite being grotesquely unequal (as all countries were at the time), India was once enormously wealthy. I cannot help but think that if its wealth had remained in India or been traded for other forms of wealth, rather than just being taken, India might be doing a bit better today.

Read this book it's a great book about the topic at hand.

u/jenbanim · 40 pointsr/neoliberal


Zach Weinersmith, the man behind Neoliberal Genghis Khan and Why NIMBYism is human kind's greatest asset, has illustrated a book about open borders with libertarian economist Bryan Caplan, and it goes on sale today.

If that sounds vaguely interesting to you, I highly recommend you read his short essay Immigration as a Civil Right. It's one of the most persuasive arguments I've read in favor of open borders, so I have very high hopes for the book.

You can order the book here on Amazon or go to the official website for more purchasing options and info.

u/LoseMoneyAllWeek · 1 pointr/neoliberal

>make them SEZ

Zero federal taxes and zero federal regulations? Cause I’d be okay with this. Mmmhmmm that capital inflow would be so hot.

>redistribute those votes to new immigrants

Lol wow here you need this

>limit the civil rights

Like what exactly?

u/LeadingCompetition · 21 pointsr/neoliberal

Granted, they are correct about the economic growth of the country. Intentionally or not Joseph Stalin took crib notes from the Imperial Russian Finance Minister who famously stated that given the choice between industrialization and allowing people to starve in the streets, people were just going to have to go hungry.

In that sense- and ironically doing what the Nazis could only imagine themselves doing under General Plan Ost- it's quite easy to grow your economy when you have no respect for human life or human rights and the rumbling of mouth breathing Germans on your border all collectively convinced there's a conspiracy of Jewish communists running your country to destroy western civilization then forced those people who generally loathed you into your 'loving' embrace. Seriously, to get a picture of what the early years of the Soviet Union was like, go read Ivan's War. Germany invading in some respects saved Stalin's experiment.

>Zero Unemployment

Because employment was a duty, even if your job was to sit in a stairway and read the newspaper.

>Zero homelessness

Man, who can say no to this? Construction companies are a brilliant way to build a fledgling economy but lets completely forgo that so everyone can live in concrete coffins.

>End Famine

You mean that thing you intentionally inflicted on the Ukrainians to cripple them? Or that thing where you forced everyone in bread lines? Jokes from the era were about how even heroes of the Soviet Union like cosmonauts had to wait in bread lines. Let that sink in: the Soviets could put man in space and achieved many important firsts in the wider space race but when tasked with making sure a country was fed they could not run an efficient bakery.

>Higher Calorie Consumption than the US

Someone's going to have to point me to this statistic but I don't see how they're not lying here. This certainly would not have started until the late 50's or early 60's because the Soviet Union was trashed in the wake of WW2 and the parts that were treated the worst was the bread basket.

u/oilman81 · 1 pointr/neoliberal

Just FYI, the Federal Reserve's sole function is, at the end of the day, to attempt to match the supply of dollars to "real" GDP. Or rather to do it in such a way that the supply overmatches by only 2% per year

This is a difficult job involving a lot of credit processes that you probably aren't fluent in understanding (discount window, FOMC), because so much of money isn't just literal reams of cash anymore; it's credit. But what you're seeing here as some sort of vast conspiracy is really just an attempt to keep the 'value' of the dollar relatively stable--which has several valuable social and economic functions discussed here:

Dollar 'value' of course being measured by the relative, price-visible value of the entire portfolio of assets and goods in the economy.

But again, you should do yourself a favor, read up some more on the subject--or just take my word for it that the belief that capital circulates outside the real economy (or that really it's capable of not circulating)...this is a fallacy that makes you look like an amateur on the subject

As for not answering all your points--that's really a tall order, man. You're kind of all over the place and there are several interrupted or circumscribed chains in logic that makes debate on those points futile. Thank you for teaching me about "rent extraction" though and your lesson in early 20th century economic theory.

u/PropertyR1ghts · 6 pointsr/neoliberal

Is the two-income trap when you trap yourself in more income, higher living standards, a more efficient economy, and more freedom?

u/thehalfdimeshow · 1 pointr/neoliberal

> waiting for good suggestions from our IR folks

The only book needed to make a country leader of the free world*


*Note that the country is France, not the country of the reader

u/disuberence · 16 pointsr/neoliberal

I think you will be surprised to learn that what you have come to understand about neoliberalism and the positions supported by this sub are not always in alignment.

Make sure to read Why Nations Fail. Your first book report is due in two weeks.

u/DeterrenceWorks · 6 pointsr/neoliberal

Pre-ordering Open Borders: The Ethics and Science of Immigration so it can beat Ben Shapiro and that fake historian Rutger Bergman on the best seller list is the only ethical consumption under capitalism.

u/Randy_Newman1502 · 20 pointsr/neoliberal

>Can you offer a critique of the Scandinavian model?

Read this carefully

Acemoglu and Robinson are some of the best in the business when it comes to this topic (authors of the widely memed Why Nations Fail)

u/PM_ME_ZED_BARA · 18 pointsr/neoliberal

You: reading peer-reviewed economic papers about Brexit.

Me, an intellectual: reading this.

u/4chanisverysucks · 1 pointr/neoliberal

What are some good introductory economics books? Is this good?

u/jakfrist · 3 pointsr/neoliberal

Obviously it’s more complex than simply “make more money dummy.” But simply putting a few $ into an S&P index each paycheck would completely change the lifestyle they are destined for once they are too old to work.

I have tried to explain compounding interest to my less affluent family members multiple times to no avail. It’s hard to convince someone to contribute to a Roth IRA when they don’t even want a bank account.

IMO, the biggest hurdle we have in the US is the complexity of the system. It’s one reason I am a huge fan of Nudge [Thaler / Sunstein]. We need a default that is easy for everyone to save money, that people who want to educate themselves can opt out of. That used to be the pension system, but as that disappears, we are headed toward a bleak future for a lot of people.

u/atnorman · 3 pointsr/neoliberal

Here's a good starting place for you.

u/I_Hate_Bernies_Mob · 49 pointsr/neoliberal

Redditors on almost any other topic: "FUCK baby boomers they drained the economy they are taking everything for themselves they own all the houses they leave nothing for the future."

Redditors when I say I'm opposed to raising SS benefits because the majority of the federal budget shouldn't go to Boomer retirees (SS + Medicare): "Fuck you you greedy corporate shill."

The idiocy is astounding. Social Security is an important social safety net, but it crowds out private savings and it therefore diminishes the capital stock for private investment. Medicare and SS are the two biggest chunks of the federal budget, and they crowd out economic growth.

I'd much rather see the 401(k) and IRA tax-free contribution caps doubled, and see some sort of program to Nudge companies into automatically enrolling workers into private savings plans--especially lower-end workers.

u/jvwoody · 7 pointsr/neoliberal

This is what we are about

The Centrist Manifesto by Charles Wheelan describes our normative beliefs very well. I found our bible

u/totallynotshilling · 4 pointsr/neoliberal

Read Bernanke's book, that will get you started. See the thing about the banks isn't that you are supposed to feel sorry for rich bankers. The issue is that having the banks fails would have prolonged the recession and made it much worse. We would have seen bread lines. If you want banks to behave well, then you have to regulate it properly. Hillary Clinton had a pretty good plan for regulating shadow banking on top of Dodd-Frank. This is why this sub loves Clinton so much, she had well-thought out policies which actually went to the root of the problem. Whereas, Bernie 'break up the big banks" Sanders only had populist rhetoric.

u/SwissMod · 3 pointsr/neoliberal

>Is social democracy neoliberal


>liberal government institutions

  • democracy
  • pluralism
  • rule of law


    this book goes into more detail what exactly thoes institutions are and why they're a good thing. If you read it you're probably gonna be more informed than 75% of this sub so I highly recommend you to read it.
u/BainCapitalist · 20 pointsr/neoliberal

til that Bryan caplan wrote a graphic nonfiction weeb mangashit on open borders.

!ping WEEBS

u/bigic1 · 3 pointsr/neoliberal

Caplan has also written a book about open borders, illustrated by Zach Weinersmith /u/MrWeiner, available for pre-order.

u/Oashigo · 72 pointsr/neoliberal

This is the title of a book he wrote.

u/Schutzwall · 4 pointsr/neoliberal

It's wholesome to spend Valentines Day with my crush

u/MandyIsAlwaysSmiling · 23 pointsr/neoliberal

Why Nations Fail by Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson

I, pencil by Leonard Read

Courage to Act by Ben Bernanke

u/this_shit · 0 pointsr/neoliberal

> why should we believe that immigrants would pay net more taxes than they cost in services

Read the textbook my dude (or alternatively the sidebar, since they're both drawing from the same paper).

u/LAMO_u_cray · 0 pointsr/neoliberal

I'm starting to get the sense that you didn't read my first comment. I literally said a very specific two year period before the end of stalingrad.

I then went on to talk about the people who joined the red army in the early war after the shock of operation barbarossa.

Read the following Books for more information:

Ivan's war



The Fall of Berlin

I don't know why you keep posting things from after the date range I specified. So many of the men who faugh in the early battles were dead by the time even operation Uranus took place, let alone during invasion of Germany.

u/fapingtoyourpost · 1 pointr/neoliberal

>I thought I was having a discussion with you.

You are, and I'm happy for it, but the way those two posts contradicted each other reminded me of the way people arguing for the sake of the crowd argue, and if this was going to be that sort of conversation there'd be no point continuing it on a dead post.

Since you want to keep talking, I'll confess that my argument's kind of a niggle. There's plenty of reasons why a female president would be a good thing. There's that story from the Lean In introduction about the first female executive at Google having to walk all the way across the lot while pregnant, and that being the reason they put in parking for pregnant employees, with the argument being that you need diversity at the top because some problems are only apparent to the people who have to actually suffer from them. There's the fact that if it actually happened it would mean that sexism has less of a hold on this country than it used to. There's the argument you made about Margaret Thatcher, that having a woman occupy the highest office in the land would give little girls and boys powerful women to look up to in heir history books. All things being equal, a female president would be better than a male president.

That said, you're arguing that even if things aren't equal a female president would be best, and not just best, but most progressive, and from the arguments you've made you seem to want this for purely symbolic reasons. I hope you're exaggerating when you say you'd vote for Anne Coulter, but even if you are it seems to only be a matter of degree. There are pragmatic reasons to want a woman president, but "the US is slowly falling down the list" is not one of them. America isn't sexist because it hasn't had any female presidents, America hasn't had any female presidents because it's sexist. Installing a female president without diminishing sexism is like changing the definition of unemployment and then claiming to have lowered the unemployment rates. The symbol is not the thing.

u/Kyo91 · 2 pointsr/neoliberal

> yeah because the people there are too stupid to set it up properly and dont have the knowledge to actually teach

>there would be if people there were smart enough to create a real civilisation

You're not someone who should be using lack of intelligence as an insult, buddy.

> not without artificially giving them an advantage over all the locally trained citizens they wouldnt

There aren't a finite number of jobs, my simpleminded friend. If nothing else, we would need to grow more food and provide more services for these new migrants, not to mention construction of new homes and expansions of existing cities just to accommodate them. Ultimately though, as long as a migrant can be paid $X an hour to generate $X+1 of profit per hour, then they'll be hired to do so.

>england france sweden germany

All countries that are doing very well. The problems they do face (read Brexit) are not caused by migrants. I get the feeling you're not the worldly sort, so I won't bother to assume you've met anyone from these countries or, heaven forbid, have been there yourself, but things like grooming, rape, and even the infamous grenade attack are all not only very rare (all violent crime is lower than in America for same density cities) but immigrants commit even less violent crime than native born citizens. If you really want to stop crime you've got to look at their children whose levels of crime go up all the way to checks notes the same level as native born citizens.

>and they just let anyone in, right? not particular demographics they thought would be able to be integrated easily or anything?

Yep, until 1920 the US literally just let in any immigrant that landed. And our country went from a poor backwater agrarian country to an industrial powerhouse. None of this to imply that "native born" countrymen particularly liked immigrants, because none of them were "white". Instead they were all dirty races such as Slavs, Germans, Chinese, and Irish aka the "Albino Negros". The fact that you can think all these people integrated as well as you do shows just how well immigrant populations are able to integrate over a couple generations.

>oh no japan might have slightly less people! what a disaster! except of course for the fact that theyre massively overpopulated and crowded as is and a high density population isnt even desirable

Japan's economy has not grown for decades, they have an aging population that they have no ability to properly care for, and projecting a 25% population decline by 2050 is a far cry from "slightly less people". Also, Japan's population density is 336/km^2 which puts it under Netherlands and Belgium and only a tad higher than the UK. Just because the Japanese are able to construct dense megacities (with proper infrastructure, zoning, and transportation to make them livable) does not mean they're overpopulated or crowded.

Now I realize this was a lot of words and reading isn't your strong suit, but if you want a recommendation for learning all this same info through colorful cartoons, then I highly recommend checking out this wonderful comic book on the subject.