Reddit reviews Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity (Stonewall Inn Editions (Paperback))
We found 34 Reddit comments about Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity (Stonewall Inn Editions (Paperback)). Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
THe book "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity" is what you need.
https://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1536733270&sr=8-1&keywords=Biological+Exuberance%3A+Animal+Homosexuality+and+Natural+Diversity.
It lists over 190 in chapter 2 alone and states that Bagemihl's research shows that homosexual behavior, not necessarily sex, has been documented in about 500 species as of 1999, ranging from primates to gut worms. Across all the chapters, it compiles
more than two centuries of observations of homosexual behavior, pair bonding, and coparenting in more than 400 species.
All the peer reviewed statistics and data sources are included in the book for those skeptics.
(Though let's face it, if Anti-vaxxers can ignore hundreds of peer-reviewed scientific documents and focus on the one discredited idiot who stated that vaccines cause autism, then people will cherry pick from this too).
>Metropolitan Anthimos of Thessaloniki, Greece’s second largest city used his pulpit just days before the vote in Greek parliament to suggest that “not even animals” have these tendencies.
Too bad "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity" hasn't been translated into Greek. Because this person needs to read it...
https://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X
> Make no mistake, the gay community needs to file for divorce with the trans community. They are no longer working toward the same goals ... Unlike members of the trans community, who are working against their biology and trying to change who they are physically, gay or lesbian people are trying to be nobody but themselves. They are not seeking surgery or hormone treatments. They love the same gender; they don’t want to be a different gender.
This. This so much.
We have biological evidence that throughout the animal kingdom homosexuality and bisexuality are totally normal and seen in a variety of species. https://www.amazon.ca/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Natural-Diversity/dp/031225377X
While Bruce Bagemihl also writes about and catalogues evidence of transgenderism in the animal kingdom in the sense of gender-non-confirming behaviour in animals as well as evidence of intersexuality/hermaphrodism. Exact gender roles and expression of those roles vary in species as well as in individuals, but all animals have to accept that biology is immutable. Sexual reassignment surgery is cosmetic and doesn't change one's gender. By being in denial about biology, this current wave of trans identity politics is essentially butting heads with reality. It won't end well.
A) homosexuality has been common in our species long before overpopulation was an issue
B) same sex sexual activity is common among mammals, reptiles and birds as well as many arthropods. Source Its prevalence seems to be uncorrelated with population density of any species.
> Tuntuu kuitenkin, jopa tästä kirjoituksesta, että on painetta painottaa esimerkiksi sellaisia väitteitä, joissa homoseksuaalisuus olisi adaptaatio, eikä esimerkiksi patogeenin aiheuttama.
Todennäköisemmin syy etsiä adaptaavista selitystä homoseksuaalisuuteen tulee siitä, että homoseksuaalisuutta on havaittu käytännössä kaikilla tutkituolla selkärankaisilla.
Lisäksi, jos havaitaan että homoseksuaallisuus on perinnöllistä tietyissä suvuissa, ja tämä on havaittavissa niin eläimissä kuin ihmisissä, niin evoluution teorian perusteella voidaan tehdä hypoteesi, että tällä ilmiöllä olisi jokin suvunjatkamista edistävä ominaisuus, vaikka se silloin tällöin johtaisi geneettiseen umpikujaan yksilöiden tasolla. Samalla tavalla kuin sirppisoluanemien kohdalla. Sirppisoluanemie johtuu yhdestä pistemutaatiosta, ja jos henkilöllä on kaksi kappaletta näitä geenejä, hän todennäköisesti kuolee jo lapsena (kyseessä on resessiivinen geeni). Jos yksilöllä on vain yksi vioittunut geeni, hänellä on tavallista parempi vastustuskyky malariaa vastaan. Tästä johtuen tämä sirppisolianemiaa aiheuttava geeni on päässyt yleistymään etenkin Afrikassa, mutta vain alueilla joissa esiintyy malariaa.
Onko kyseessä siis adaptaatio vai patogeeni? Joissain tapauksissa tämä voi johtaa yksilön kuolemaan (geneettinen umpikuja), mutta jos geenin antama hyöty populaatiolle ovat suuremmat kuin haitat, se voi silti levitä populaatiossa ja olla näin ollen adaptiivinen alleeli. Käsitykseni mukaan homoseksuaalisuus on samantapainen tapaus. Homoseksuaalisuus on haitallista yksilön geneettiselle jatkumolle, mutta sen aiheuttama(t) geeni(t) voivat olla populaation kannalta edullisia.
Potholer54 teki asiaan liittyen erinomaisen videon, joka kannattaa ehdottomasti vilkaista, jos et ole sitä jo nähnyt:
How to confuse a creationist -- Homosexuality, Evolution and the Bible
>Why do you think homosexuality exists?
Simple. Humans are animals. Animals have an urge to hump things.
Although, it could be have a social role in nature.
>What caused the writers of the Bible to hate on homosexuality?
A lot of misunderstanding about the universe, such as hyenas used to be thought to be able to change sex.
>Is there evidence that there were homosexual cave men and women?
It is very difficult to find evidence of social behavior in cultures without writing.
---
I have no problem with homosexuality or transgender issue, mostly because I am not religious. However, because of Christian Dominionism (think Sharia Law for Christians), this has become a bigger issue that it needs to be.
It's likely.
It's not more common now than it was 500 years ago. We just happen to have a huge population in which the trait can show itself more often. Check out a book called Biological Exuberance by Bruce Baghemihl it does an excellent job telling of the frequency homosexuality is seen in many species.
http://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1291778199&sr=8-1
https://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1542602162&sr=8-1&keywords=biological+exuberance
See the book "Biological Exuberance" for dozens of examples of long-term same-sex relationships in the animal kingdom. The name of the book is the code phrase used by researchers to mean "gay" back in the dark times when being gay was considered a mental illness.
https://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X
>1.8% чистиx гeїв сeрeд чоловiкiв в США.
Это чистых геев, только среди мужчин, только в религиозно покусанном США, да. Но вот всех ЛГБТ в США - таки 3.8%.
Иллюстративно распределение по штатам, низкие 1.9%-2.9% в правоверных мачожопенях типа Северной Дакоты, Теннесси, Миссиссипи; высокие 4.9-5.1% в расслабленных местах типа Орегона, Вермонта, Гавайев (10% в Коламбии, но там чисто один город, популяция ЛГБТ нетипично высока).
А теперь возьмем сводку по недавним опросам по ряду развитых стран. Просто просмотрите. Франция, Великобритания - около 6% опрошенных говорят, что они ЛГБТ. Бразилия и Польша Вас очень порадуют.
В среднем получаем примерно 6% ЛГБТ (~3% чистых геев/лесбиянок и ~3% би) при отсутствии сильного культурного прессинга.
P.S. Точные цифры так легко пристрастно выдирать из контекста и презентовать в гордом одиночестве. По-аглицки то, что Вы делаете, называется cherry-picking. В статистике и науке за это бьют подсвечниками. Правильно смотреть на сводки множественных опросов, и на всё распределение данных.
>Майжe нiякиx пiддтeрджeнь гомосeксуальної оріентаціі серед тварин немає. Є деякі моменті, коли тварини однієї статі одна з іншою бавяться, але це не означає, що їх протилежна стать не цікавить. Вони вважають, що всi отi корови, що у стадi друг на друга залaзять - вони вжe лeсбiянки.
Ловите 450 видов животных. Не знаю, есть ли перевод. Да, речь очень часто идёт о долговременных отношениях (где в небольшом, где в большом % особей).
>Цe маячня в кубi та нeрозумiння що такe норма.
Если важно, норма или нет, то про бимодальные и мультимодальные распределения слышали? Какого пола нормальный человек? Или норм может быть больше чем одна? 6% это много, если что.
Вообще не должно быть важно, норма или нет, если поведение не нарушает прав и свобод других граждан. "Права не видеть как праативные целуются" в нормальных (скорее вменяемых) государствах нет.
Not to instigate an argument, but it's kinda sorta common. Or at least more common than I originally thought. Definitely still a minority though. Good book on the subject.
Biological Exuberance
Homosexuality among animals is well documented. If you're too snooty for Wikipedia, try a book: https://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X
I knew I know that face from somewhere.
To add another dimension to /u/franlyfran's "joke gift" idea. Is it possible to think of shows, scenes, sketches, stand-up specials, skits and stuff you like that involve the toy in question? And then to say that you and this "friend's" shared appreciation for [insert thing] provided the context for which it would be sort of funny but not sexual, for the "friend" to give you such a gift.
This idea only came to me because a friend of mine gave me this book on animal homosexuality, a friend with which I share such a bond (which is a love of all things Gervais) that makes it OK! Although, as nosy as my mother is too, she's yet to find it!
Hope it works out.
Not in any orifice.
Not sure about the number, but lions are totally gay. It's probably a lot more than 8%. This is from the book biological exuberance
> The only times homosexuality has been observed in non-Homo Sapiens animals are when such animals are IN CAPTIVITY
Wrong, one look at the Wikipaedia article on this shows multiple examples of homosexual behaviour in the wild. Further examples here and here and an article on Fox news that specifically acknowledges it. Also for specific examples- gorillas, sumatran orangutans, gibbons
Ant then theres a book, Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity which lists another 450 species in which it has been observed in the wild. I have that book
There's a generally well liked book on this subject called "Biological Exuberance". I thought it got a little creepy at times, not in content, but tone.
When my ex-husband came out, his mom was worried about how his elderly Midwestern grandmother would take it. She needn't have been since what grandma said was "oh please, I grew up on a farm! Spend some time with barnyard animals and you'll never doubt that homosexuality is a natural variation."
Homosexuality has been observed in over 450 animal species. Homophobia has only been observed in 1. So tell me now, which is more unnatural?
Your reaction is totally normal. Pretty much everyone in the LGBT world has gone through a period of self-loathing. Society tells us we're worthless, but those claims are based on fear and ignorance. All evidence points to the fact that our sexuality is innate... and there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with you! Don't beat yourself up for your mere capacity to love someone of the same sex. If there's anything the world needs more of -- it's love!
Have patience, LOSTnhope! There are lots of us out here rooting for you in your long, tough road of self-discovery. hugs
Actually, homosexuality absolutely is natural. It's not a matter of politics, and hasn't been for a long time. It is a fact.
Homosexual behaviour is documented in hundreds of animal species, including guinea pigs (my own pets actually did this... or at least, one did it to the other), bonobos, several species of dolphin (who fuck each others' blowholes), hedgehogs, penguins, ducks, sheep, cassowaries, sunfish, char, salmon, etc. I could go on for a long time and mention animals you've never even heard of.
There's actually a delightful book on the subject that I'd recommend to anyone with a slightly unhealthy interest in it. It even has lovingly-drawn illustrations of lesbian hedgehog cunnilingus!
Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity, Bruce Bagemihl
Amazon link (but I encourage you to not support Amazon)
>Homosexuality in its myriad forms has been scientifically documented in more than 450 species of mammals, birds, reptiles, insects, and other animals worldwide. Biological Exuberance is the first comprehensive account of the subject, bringing together accurate, accessible, and nonsensationalized information. Drawing upon a rich body of zoological research spanning more than two centuries, Bruce Bagemihl shows that animals engage in all types of nonreproductive sexual behavior. Sexual and gender expression in the animal world displays exuberant variety, including same-sex courtship, pair-bonding, sex, and co-parenting--even instances of lifelong homosexual bonding in species that do not have lifelong heterosexual bonding.
>Part 1, "A Polysexual, Polygendered World," begins with a survey of homosexuality, transgender, and nonreproductive heterosexuality in animals and then delves into the broader implications of these findings, including a valuable perspective on human diversity. Bagemihl also examines the hidden assumptions behind the way biologists look at natural systems and suggests a fresh perspective based on the synthesis of contemporary scientific insights with traditional knowledge from indigenous cultures.
>Part 2, "A Wondrous Bestiary," profiles more than 190 species in which scientific observers have noted homosexual or transgender behavior. Each profile is a verbal and visual "snapshot" of one or more closely related bird or mammal species, containing all the documentation required to support the author's often controversial conclusions.
>Lavishly illustrated and meticulously researched, filled with fascinating facts and astonishing descriptions of animal behavior, Biological Exuberance is a landmark book that will change forever how we look at nature.
There are virtually no attributes of humans that are not shared to some degree with animals, which is unsurprising since humans are animals. I have no idea whether human homosexuality is one thing or many, but as exhaustive studies have shown, it's a trait shared by animals. See Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity . It's thought that having non-reproductive males in a group assists its survival, and those males pass on their genes by proxy, as they are near relations with other other members of the group.
Hm.
Toss in something about homosexual animals...
http://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X
Homosexuality is well documented and been known for a long time (source: Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity (Stonewall Inn Editions (Paperback)) https://www.amazon.com/dp/031225377X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_prkBDbH4HMXTB ).
The problem is (and I speak on both sides of the political spectrum) people only care about the statistics that support what they already want to believe.
As someone that lived in Utah valley at the age of 14-15, let me tell you that reality is very different there then Mormons anywhere else in the world. I'm sure you are familiar with the cliques that form to show how righteous they are. I really got tired of people thinking it was the most righteous place on earth. (Even more so than SLC because of the worldly influence there).
The reason why I bring this up is anyone accepting you as you are has to admit there is a flaw in Mormonism. Since one of the basic premises of Mormonism is that the prophet can not have any flaws, you must be wrong. They will try to change you to save their own faith.
I say this with the idea that you already recognize that there is a discordance between what you have been taught and your own personal reality. So let me introduce you to the concept of religion and the concept of church. For example, it is OK to be Catholic, but think the Pope is wrong. You can believe in the religion and disagree with the church, in the same way that you would not worship the UPS man for delivering you something you really wanted.
(As a side note, there will be people that tell you that you are not natural, and your feelings are not natural. The perfect rebuttal is to mention that the rate of the population that show homosexual tendencies is 1.5% to 3% across all mammals. Here is the reference Mormonism says animals can not sin - therefore being gay can not be a sin.)
tl;dr God created gay animals, therefore you're normal, Utah Valley isn't
how does the nurture theory explain the homosexuality documented in hundreds of other species?
edit: pick up Biological Exuberance for a thought provoking read.
should try and read the book then;
http://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X
The news article linked by OP is a much more current example, but it is worthy to note that a book was written on the subject as well. It's by a Canadian biologist named Bruce Bagemihl:
Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity
Yeah, I think it will shut them up. Another study I saw suggested that the effect was particularly strong in people who had experienced strict, authoritarian parenting so bring that up if they are conservatives.
Edit: This is a major work on animal homosexuality.
Dr Joan Roughgarden is another expert in this field.
Homosexuality is documented in other animals as well. So yes, it is
> normal like today's society is trying to make it seem
Why are we any different?
Pretty easy to tear down.
First it's always good to start a debate knowing what your arguing against, So the first thing to ask is what their definition of "Natural" and "unnatural" is, The typical definition and the way the word "Natural" is commonly used is:
>Existing in or derived from nature; not made or caused by humankind
If their definition significantly differs to that then you're arguing against a claim that doesn't follow our languages usage or definitions of common words in which case you're just going to end up wasting your time arguing over definitions, So long as their definition fits this criteria you can move on.
Based on that definition all you need to do is prove that homosexuality occurs "naturally" i.e. "without human intervention"
Which oh boy, we already can, You can point them towards This Wikipedia Article or alternatively they can read up the book "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity" written by Canadian biologist Bruce Bagemihl which shows homosexuality occurring in hundreds/thousands of species other than humans.
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Alternatively What I like to do is to humor their initial claim that "Homosexuality is unnatural" and see where that assertion leads.
So for the discussion we can establish a hypothetical scenario in which they're right and that homosexuality only occurs in humans making it for all intents and purposes "unnatural".
Now that we've created our hypothetical scenario what other conclusions can we draw from that information?... The answer is none, Because neither "natural" things or "unnatural" things have any other inherent qualities or properties that you can make assertions or draw conclusions from, The only question you've answered is whether it occurs with or without human intervention...
The argument that "Homosexuality is unnatural" is typically coming from the Naive perspective that "All unnatural things are inherently bad!" which is obviously nonsense because I doubt these same people making this same stupid argument are going to be the ones denying their children life saving medications because the meds are "unnatural" or refusing to drive to work because cars are "unnatural"
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Yes.
http://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X/ref=sr_1_1/187-8590692-7268402?ie=UTF8&qid=1382549797&sr=8-1&keywords=biological+exuberance
Yes.
Too many examples to mention but the most talked about examples online would include Bonobo Monkeys and Giraffes. If you want more info on the topic I would suggest the book "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity" by Bruce Bagemihl Dont let the title fool you. It covers much more than homosexuality.