Reddit reviews Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion

I agree with @AParanoidEmu, you have a good chance of upping this number. I'd get a copy of the school's statistic on the $72,500 to back it up at the negotiating table. I'd counter offer with higher than $72,500 myself.

If you have higher than average GPA or if you had internships involved in AE, definitely go higher than the average!

If the average of $72,500 is OK with you, you can let yourself be negotiated down to that or even to $70K if that's acceptable to you (I don't know why it would be).

Also know what amount you will walk from (walk from the negotiation entire with a "Sorry, but buh-bye, no deal"). There is always such a level - personally I'd put the walk-away threshold at $72,500 but I'm a risk-thriving person, always had internships and high GPA in school, etc.

Other tips - sorry, yet another Wall of Text:

All negotiations have a similar structure and set of rules. Basically you have a "game" played with each side having a turn with 3 options:

• Stay in the game, accept offered bid, game ends
  
• Stay in the game, make counter-bid (including a null-bid, same-as-last-time), game continues
  
• Get out of the game (walk away), game ends
  
  This is bootstrapped by a opening bid made by one of the two sides. The game iterates until the game ends. BTW ALL economic transactions and romantic/sexual relationships are also negotiations exactly the same as this. Something to think about if you aren't getting laid regularly or if you are in a bad relationship.
  
  All you have to do is know what you are willing to accept, counter or walk from. These are determined by stakes (pay, benefits, commitments, etc.) and resource levels (your time to play the game and money opportunity cost of playing). You should always enter any negotiation knowing what these thresholds are ahead of time.
  
  You can determine the thresholds based on
  
  

1. comparables (what others that are "comparable" are paid) - like how houses are initially bid, or
   
   
2. your own financial needs (cost-based pricing, your cash flow costs and obligations) which usually "leaves money on the table" in their favor
   
   
3. your intuition and opinion of what you are worth and what you think they will accept ("what the market will bear" which is not "provable" except empirically but is just as reasonable as anything for a negotiation - you have to be brave enough to be able to "walk" based on your intuition/opinion about this) - this is actually the maximizing solution and also the one that requires the most knowledge/research and risk.
   
   The party offering money (aka Buyer) should always low-ball their initial offer and counter-offers. The party offering non-money (aka Seller) should always high-ball their initial offer and counter-offers. This has to do with the fungibility of money over pretty much all else - it's bias in the power relationship.
   
   It also is the only way for both parties to find the deal "intuitively/emotionally acceptable"; go in the "wrong direction" and "non-monotonic counter-offer progression" and there will be "sour grapes" on one side even after the deal is closed which will often cause problems down the road.
   
   Also related to this: the point is not to close the negotiation quickly. This actually both signals, and is in fact an indication of, a side's situational/negotiation weakness. Aka "Blood in the water". You have time (unless you don't) so having several iterations of the above game is a good thing.
   
   In other words, your 1st counter offer should be obviously unacceptable with the expectation it will be rejected and trigger a counter-offer but not a "walk away" on their side: above the Buyer's "Reasonable Zone" but below the Buyer's "Insult Zone" in the Buyer's "Credible Zone" (see PDF below). The "Insult Zone" is where a side is jarred to the point where they realize they are wasting their time playing the game and should walk away (quit).
   
   And the $66K should be obviously unacceptable to you - nearly in if not in your "Insult Zone". I'd say $80K is still in the Buyer's Credible Zone, possibly in the high Reasonable Zone. I'd guess the $66k is actually the Buyer's "Top Line" offer.
   
   So you iterate with their offer to your counter offer (and assuming they reject $80K):
   
   ---
   
   "So you won't do $80K. What can you offer that is better than $66K. BTW, the recent historic salaries of MSAE graduates from my school has averaged $72,500."
   
   lay a print-out of the schools statistics on the table
   
   "I've had internships between terms which means I have more experience that your average graduate. I also have a very good, above average GPA."
   
   lay your resume on the table
   
   "So I while my $80K number is quite fair IMO, what can you do instead?"
   
   And they counter-counter-offer with a new number (the game continues, now with them having the idea that your "Bottom Line" is closer to $72,500) or they "null" counter offer ("we can't go above $66K"). Again, what is your "walk away" threshold? I'd definitely walk at this point unless there are significant non-money things they can counter with, but that's me.
   
   So consider asking/proposing for things that aren't cash money to pad you initial or counter offers (especially if they null offer below your walk away threshold). This could include benefits or it could be vacations or sabbaticals or trade/academic conference trips or perks a nice window office and an equipment budget.
   
   "OK so you can't go above $66K. I really liked the folks I interviewed with and it seems like a good work environment, but I can't accept that salary. Maybe there are other benefits you can offer to make up for the gap in your salary offer. "
   
   This is a not subtle dig (and quite intentional, but nicely framed) which they should pick up on and put them on the defensive, at least in their minds. They want to be liked because you just said you liked them BUT - you put the BUT in their mouths based on what they said/offered which says they are not reciprocating with your liking them. You may pick up on it in body language. Being put on the defense will cause them to agree to things they may not normally agree or plan to; that's a good thing. Just get it in writing.
   
   "You normally offer 2 weeks of vacation per year after a 6 month probation period: how about we nullify the probation completely and you give me 4 week of vacation per year immediately. That works out to $2640 extra per year effectively."
   
   That bumps you up to $68,640 right there. Their objection will be that the "salary curve doesn't allow that" to which you can say "So let's make a new position, title and salary curve then" which BTW I've had done for me in the past!! It is possible but it requires imagination and authority on their part - another possible "walk away criteria". I used 50 weeks because that's when you'd normally be working for them productively with 2 weeks vacation. But before they can answer...
   
   "There are 3 professional conferences I'd like to regularly attend. If you guaranteed my annual attendance with hotel, transportation and meals for myself and my wife/SO, that would be another $6K per year. I'd be willing to pick up the expenses for my wife other than the hotel, transportation and meals, of course."
   
   Obviously you need to be prepared for all of this with your own numbers. It's like studying for an exam you'd actually like to pass, right? Did you notice the sleight-of-hand on getting your wife/SO covered? Of course the "extra expense" both quite reasonable and costing you nothing but it only seems fair to include the other things for her since she is affected by their offer gap also and they need to make up the gap in their offer somehow.
   
   "And to really do my job here well, I'd really need to have the new Acme Boundary-layer Characterization System 5000 in my lab and plenty of computing power to drive the analysis. If you could provide that I have one of those, say, within the next 2-3 months, and give me a $200K/year capital budget, I could ignore the remaining difference in salary from what I think is perfectly reason and acceptable as an industry norm."
   
   Get this in writing also. And the benefit to them is that they get to keep the Acme 5000 and any capital anyway and it help them with a productivity issue. So it doesn't actually cost them and might be nearly a sunk cost anyway. But it will make your work life so much easier and more pleasant.
   
   ---
   
   There are so many negotiation tricks I'm using above I can't really gory detail them here. Get a copy of Cohen and Caldini, read them, think about this situation in the context of these books. Also look at this negotiation PDF, especially the "7 secret weapons" (from Caldini IIRC).
   
   Get these non-money things in writing as part of closing the deal. Ideally in the final offer letter or in a written employment agreement your write for them yourself if they won't write it in or they wiggle with "we can handle this later".
   
   If they throw out the idea of a formal written agreement to the extras then minimally write a "letter/memorandum of understanding" that says the same basic thing and certified mail it to them. If you have a friend who's a lawyer, ask him/her to send it to the company for you on firm letterhead.
   
   A MOU/LOU of understanding isn't as strong as a contract but it does have significant legal standing so you can at least use it as a negotiating tool later on if you need to - particularly if they go back on the agreed terms and you need to bitch-slap them to get them back on track.
   

I am obsessed. Here is my current collection:

Most of these you can find on thepiratebay / etc, but I own a hard copy of all of these except for The Mystery Method, which I read probably 5 times before I found Magic Bullets (actually don't own that either, just the pdf). I'll add to this list if I think of more.

Must Reads:

Magic Bullets - Savoy ==>> [Torrent] it's expensive!

• This book is so excellent. It's like a PUA encyclopedia. It walks you through the process, and cites every major text along the way.. none of this "my way works best" crap, but not afraid to make judgments either. For pickup books that employ some form of the M3 Model (however loosely.. which I think means: everyone except Ross Jeffries), this is the authoritative text. If you have an approach that is proven, important, and credible, then it is probably cited in this book.
  
  Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion - Robert Cialdini
  
  
• I got this book because it is #1 on this list. Turns out, it is the modern version of Dale Carnegie's How To Win Friends and Influence People (see review below).. only this time, it's by someone who knows a thing or two about applied psychology (which either didn't exist back then, or was too under-developed to matter). This guy freaking went undercover as a used car salesman, working with fundraisers, etc. Interestingly enough, I bought this book in the same order as The Game, and in chapter 1 Strauss mentions reading Cialdini's book to prepare for a trip to Belgrade with Mystery, which was his formal introduction into the PUA community.
  
  The Art of Seduction - Robert Greene
  
  
• I'm not done with this one yet, but I will say this: if you have a conscience, don't read this. It really is a fascinating study of seduction, but it does focus on seduction as a tool to victimize people.. That said, unlike your typical pick-up type book which does not bother to categorize gamers' personality types, this book categorizes different "types" of seducers. This is extremely helpful because you can figure out what type of seducer fits you best, and what things you need to focus on to improve your game.
  
  How to Win Friends & Influence People - Dale Carnegie
  
  
• This book has sold over 15 million copies. It was originally written in 1937, but has been revised once or twice since it became the best selling self-help type book of all time, which it probably still is. He walks you through the basic principles of how to motivate people.. what works, what doesn't.. etc. Fun, easy, captivating read. It looks thick, but I think I unintentionally read it cover to cover in one sitting the first time I read it in college.. so it's a quick read.
  
  
  Should reads:
  
  The Game - Neil Strauss
  
  
• I think this is one of the best selling pick-up type books. I liked reading it, but it was less of a tutorial book and more of an autobiography.. it does get the job done though. It also is a very entertaining read, and if you doubt that PUA stuff actually works, this will prove to you otherwise because Strauss was a very timid and ugly mofo, but he fucked Jenna Jameson.
  
  The Mystery Method : How to Get Beautiful Women Into Bed - Mystery, Chris Odom, Neil Strauss
  
  
• This introduced me into the world of PUA my senior year of college when I inadvertently stumbled upon a torrent of it (I was probably looking for something to jerk off to. How poetic). I downloaded it just to skim through it skeptically, but this book eventually introduced me to a whole new world. This is an excellent staple / beginner's text, even though I now recommend Magic Bullets because it is so much more objective and inclusive of alternate styles and approaches along the way.
  
  How to Get the Women You Desire into Bed - Ross Jeffries
  
  
• Not done with this yet, but Ross Jeffries is a freak (not meant to be insulting to him). I have no doubt that his methods are effective, but they are very different. And he really seems a bit evil, as opposed to merely mischievous like most other PUAs are. I haven't decided how incompatible, if not just different, his methods are with the Mystery / Strauss crowd.. but then again, I have never field tested any of his methods myself.
  
  Truth in Comedy: The Manual of Improvisation - Charna Halpern, Del Close, Kim Johnson
  
  
• A close friend of mine who studied improv in New York lent me this, and I forgot about it until recently -- but it is a very short but brilliant book about comedy. I'm listening now to David DeAngelo's Cock Comedy series, and I realized that almost everything he's saying is straight out of this little text. It's not really something essential for pick-up, which is why I wouldn't put it in Must Reads, but it is excellent nonetheless.
  
  
  Meh, they're alright:
  
  The Pickup Artist: The New and Improved Art of Seduction - Mystery, Neil Strauss
  
  
• You can definitely get some good stuff out of this book, but the whole thing comes across as an excuse for Mystery to brag about how awesome he is. He seriously spends an entire chapter (maybe more) telling a story about him bragging to other PUAs. He does deserve it though, the man is the single most influential PUA ever, if not the most successful in the field.
  
  Rules of the Game - Neil Strauss
  
  
• This is one of those books that you read once a day for 30 days, and write down statements of intent right in the book like "it is my goal to lose my virginity before my next birthday in 3 months." Probably good for beginners, but I skimmed through this after having been gaming in the field for several months.
  
  Haven't read yet:
  
  What Every BODY is Saying: An Ex-FBI Agent's Guide to Speed-Reading People - Joe Navarro, Marvin Karlins
  
  
• This looks really good.
  
  NLP: The New Technology of Achievement - NLP Comprehensive
  
  Easy Mind-Reading Tricks - Robert Mandelberg, Ferruccio Sardella
  
  Palm Reading for Beginners: Find Your Future in the Palm of Your Hand (For Beginners (Llewellyn's)) - Richard Webster
  
  There are also some good videos out there (links are to torrents. these are all several hundred $$):
  
  
  Excellent Videos
  
  The Annihilation Method - Neil Strauss
  
  
• I met a guy who said he was looking around his apartment for things to sell so he could afford the $375 this costs. apparently he didn't think to check thepiratebay ;)
  
  Mystery and Style
  
  
• The videos of Mystery in here are just excellent. It's very interesting to see Mystery actually interacting with other people (not in a set), since he is the god of pick-up.
  
  Decent Videos
  
  Psychic Influence - Ross Jeffries
  
  
• This is interesting.. I'm not much of a Jeffries guy though, mostly because he's the most oddball of the group, and I haven't studied his material enough.

Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion

An excellent book which discusses this is the classic Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. The author talks about several examples of how huge groups of people witnessing a crime have failed to help or call the police. The conclusion wasn't that the human race is evil; rather, as Prodigal_Daughter points out, nobody feels that it is their place to help (or everyone assumes that somebody else has already helped). Interesting topic.

That said, I'm not sure how much this principal applies to this story.

James Randi, master of such topics.
http://www.amazon.com/Flim-Flam-Psychics-Unicorns-Other-Delusions/dp/0879751983/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1

Not about the topics, but on how people get scammed into them.
http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert-Cialdini/dp/0688128165

This is the spiritual successor to "How to Win Friends and Influence People":

http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert-Cialdini/dp/0688128165

It is written more from the perspective of "here is what people do to try to influence you unfairly and what you can do about it".

>Not everyone responds well to graphic images and videos, satirical, passive agressive criticism, or being called out and having their beliefs challenged.

So don't do any of those things. Unless the person is already open to the idea of veganism, those are recipes for disaster.

>How do you effectively change people or plant the seed in their minds

This is the book you want. And if you have somebody who is willing to have a conversation with you, something like this book might be pretty good (it's mostly for therapists helping people deal with addictions and stuff, but that's still relevant). One good video I saw recently, that clearly uses a lot of these tactics, is this vegan street interview.

You can probably do some googling for blogs and articles on the psychology of persuasion and behavior change.

EDIT: You can't expect to just show people the truth and have them immediately change their thinking. This is a quote from a book about climate change, but it's definitely relevant here:

>Ironically, one of the best proofs that information does not change people's attitudes is that science communicators continue to ignore the extensive research evidence that shows that information does not change people's attitudes.

Influence will explain to you hte human motivations behind everything we do. It's full of "A-ha!" moments.

After reading Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, I like to substitute the term "salesperson" with "compliance professional".

Perhaps Influence by Cialdini would be useful. You can use influence for good or evil, but it helps to know all the mechanics.

Also, Leading Teams, by Richard Hackman (awful professor, but a good book), talks a lot about issues specific to leadership roles, but not necessarily software.

This is like sales 101. That tactic and others are covered in depth in this book.

http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert-Cialdini/dp/0688128165

Influence by Cialdini is a classic. When I read it, it blew my mind how "PR" marketing is not at all what I thought it was.

I usually recommend going after the soft underbelly and moving up from there...

1. Something on the history of the bible and religion itself. Bring out the skeletons they don't discuss in bible study.
   
2. Something on the contradictions, and different interpretations of the bible. Add to the pile of bones.
   
3. Scientific theories... a good one is this book. It's not anti-religious, but goes into good detail about how we know what we know in science.
   
4. If you want something to make her feel better... if she's not scientific in nature I doubt that just "reality" will help, in which case I recommend Buddhism (without the reincarnation). It's religiousy enough for those that need it, but without a lot of the BS.
   
   Other interesting books...:
   
   (abridged) http://books.google.com/books?id=VNgBZR4bxG0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Golden+Bough&source=gbs_similarbooks_s&cad=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false
   
   http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert-Cialdini/dp/0688128165 (you'll want to read this too actually).
   
   

"They", as you call them, are an example of what happens to people when they allow themselves to be manipulated. You might be too though. That's the business of politics in today's world... I highly suggest picking up a book on psychology and reading it (example), and start trying to count the bias in whatever news organization you subscribe to (they all do it, some more than others).

Lastly, when dealing with such people, don't argue, instead use something like the Socratic method to lightly point out that they're parroting words they know very little about.

This this and this, if you ever want some more reading material.

Is this the right book?

http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Robert-Cialdini/dp/0688128165

WOW! you are delusional. That wiki article you linked to says the same thing I just told you. Liberation theology basically says that things like poverty exist because people aren't following christian law (a lie). it promotes overthrowing governments in favor of a christian state. It want's only to "liberate" people right under christian controle. There is no actual liberation involved. It's literally sedition.

As far as the slavery thing goes, I'll through you an obvious bone. This was on r/atheism just today.

But you know what, fuck you kid. I'm not going to do your homework for you. go read a book, or just browse r/atheism

>How is it a key factor? Explain to me, specifically, using specific examples, especially explaining how it is more of a key factor than the ones I've listed. I fail to see your reasoning.

What do you want from me? a fucking research project and a thesis paper. Again, go read a book. Here is a good one for you. You can learn about persuasion, and you might be able to realize how, without Christianity, those economic forces you sited would not have the susceptible public, or the material for their propaganda.

I higher price does indeed result in higher demand: please see the opening example in Influence: The Sceience of Persuasion. It turns out, people are not rational actors as most economic theory insists. Social Psychology paints a much different story.

On the same tack as You Can Negotiate Anything, I'd also recommend Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion