Reddit reviews The Underground History of American Education: A School Teacher's Intimate Investigation Into the Problem of Modern Schooling
We found 15 Reddit comments about The Underground History of American Education: A School Teacher's Intimate Investigation Into the Problem of Modern Schooling. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
Used Book in Good Condition
I would say that Gatto's Underground History got me thinking about modern public education. He is kind of a wingnut, but he has lots of good history, and points about our modern industrial education system. That led me to learn about the history of education, and I realized that when we abandoned the classical liberal arts tradition, we lost a lot. So basically, I thought that by using the Core Knowledge Curriculum, combined with Latin and Singapore Math, we could provide a better education than our local public schools.
Sadly, there's as much variation in the quality of homeschooling as there is in the quality of public schools, apparently, but from what I've seen in our homeschooling community, an involved, caring parent will do just as well as, if not better than the average public school.
As to the reasons for going back to school, a few of her friends decided to go to high school, which means the end of her reading and writing groups. We were prepared to go all the way, but she decided to try high school. I don't have many worries, other than the normal parent-of-teenager worries. She's got a good head on her shoulders.
There's a compelling and well-supported theory that the American public education system is based on the Prussian education system of the late 1800's, which was engineered to turn ignorant rural farm children into functioning industrial workers.
It stresses things like repetition, recitation, strict unquestioning obedience, showing up on time, leaving on time, eating on time, standing in lines, sitting in assigned positions, going through an assembly line of grades indifferent to each child's abilities, reading and following basic instructions, etc.
It is a system expressly designed to remove the instincts for discovery, independence, self-driven growth, etc.
"The Underground History of American Education" is a good book on the subject:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0945700040/ref=cm_cr_othr_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8
I also strongly recommend Lockhart's Lament:
http://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/pdf/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf
(number of people with "bad" jobs) >>> (number of people with "good" jobs)
This is what the public ed system should be doing. Its not a secret.
http://www.amazon.com/Underground-History-American-Education-Investigation/dp/0945700040/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1395705212&sr=8-2&keywords=public+education+system+john+taylor+gatto
I apologize as this is not a historical analysis of the education system. However, I believe the assertion, "The US school system was designed to churn out factory workers," is most likely referencing John Gatto's The Underground History of American Education. If I recall correctly (and it has been a long while), Gatto looks at the Prussian systems, as well as the relationships between the Indian and British school systems. I have not seen Gatto referenced in conversations about the historical development of the US education system, however; his arguments seem to be a part of a conversation about the state of contemporary education, concerns about standardized testing versus ingenuity, etc. To be sure, Gatto tries to develop a historical explanation for the contemporary issues in education, but I have not seen how his work fits in to a broader historical narrative, which poses problems for the viability of his conclusions, I think. Similar arguments about education include [Ken Robinson's Ted Talk] (http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html) on Creativity, for example, which are part of a more current discourse regarding education philosophies like unschooling (in Gatto's case) and inquiry-based programs like Montessori, Reggio Emilia, etc.
You are certainly correct that the quality of public education can vary widely, however no matter how well performing a public school may be they all suffer from the same fundamental issues. As references to this brief diatribe I will point you to (as in my other comment) the school sucks project, a book called Illiberal Reformers which details the frightening truth of the early progressive movement, and finally The Underground History of American Education which is a book by a decorated public school teacher who had a terrifying realization after a his long career. Note, that nothing I say here is an attack on any educators or teachers who might read this. I truly believe most teachers and the like get into the field for the right reasons, but the structure that they are faced with is the problem.
The problem with public school in the US, and many other countries (especially Western), is that learning/education is really only a secondary purpose. It is at all times subordinate, and therefore often undermined, to further the actual goal of creating a subordinate citizenry. The early progressives (Who as an aside were just awful, for example it was they who inspired the Nazis to eugenics. Once you go down this rabbit hole you'll never look at Woodrow Wilson the same again.) who championed the introduction of the American public school system were quite plain about where the idea for the modern public school came from. Namely, the Prussian aristocracy who inflicted it upon the populace in the 1800s for the express purpose of making them easy to rule. They made no attempt to hide this fact. The early progressives were somewhat more cautious in their language, dressing up the idea in Utopian language but their intentions are pretty clear if you go look at the academic papers and such they published at the times (which the two books I linked do).
So as to not get too long winded, let me just as a few rhetorical questions. How do you forcefully educate someone? How do you force someone to learn? How does mandating children show up at a building on pain of confinement for them or their parents further either of those goals? The Athenians are turning in their graves. The system forces children to show up at an arbitrary time, irrespective of their individual circumstances, and divides them into arbitrary groups. They are then forced to respect and defer to a person (i.e. Teacher/Adminstrators) arbitrarily. They have to seek permission to perform normal bodily functions (i.e. ask to use the restroom), trained not unlike you would a dog (not that I have anything against dogs!). They are trained to shuffle from one room to another at the sound of a bell, and to fill out meaningless paperwork and to perform meaningless tasks within an arbitrary involuntary hierarchy. It erodes at the mind and soul, creating an obedient populace that is used to dealing with a convoluted bureaucracy, and sometimes you learn something. To top it off, the curriculum is controlled via a political apparatus subject to all the corruption that accompanies politics. You can school, indoctrinate, and train people, but you can't force them to think critically and to really learn.
>How would you define a good vs bad school, or is it just about movement of students?
>How would you assess if a teacher is good or bad?
The parents decide, just like they do for everything else for their kids.
>Should private and/or charter schools be required to go through some sort of process to certify their merit before being allowed to enter the educational system
No.
>Presumably you would support private and/or charter schools, how would you make access to them affordable for poor students?
Every kid gets a voucher, to be used at any school they wish.
>being pointed to a good resource would be appreciated.
This book.
And this book.
But to be honest, imo, the best way to educate your own kids is this way.
Great! I completely agree.
Another great book is http://www.amazon.com/Underground-History-American-Education-Investigation/dp/0945700040/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260548679&sr=1-2
and anything by Bastiat.
My views of American school is that privatization hurts the current 'public' system. It further separates the classes, but that is what the public system was designed to do. It was scientifically designed to create malleable workers for the industrial revolution. The system strives to keep people dumb. But don't believe me, believe a teacher
I think the responsibility needs to get back into the home. I believe a better system would be to let parents decide when their children are schooled and where. More public like a library. Where I am from being dumb is almost a badge of honor.
Also, we should privatize sports programs. Take them out of the "public" institutions we call schools. They seem to be quite a distraction and lend more to being popular then becoming a self learner.
Louis Hartz: The Liberal Tradition in America
Karl Popper's The Open Society and Its Enemies (both volumes)
Eric Fromm's Escape from Freedom
Chalmers Johnson: The Sorrows of Empire: Militarism, Secrecy, and the End of the Republic
Hanah Arendt: Origins of Totalitarianism and On Violence
Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West
Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers
Capitalism and Slavery
American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America
INSIDE THE COMPANY: CIA DIARY
Empire's Workshop: Latin America, the United States, and the Rise of the New Imperialism
The Underground History of American Education: A School Teacher's Intimate Investigation Into the Problem of Modern Schooling
Please read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Underground-History-American-Education-Investigation/dp/0945700040/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1303747880&sr=1-1
Required watching/reading for all people interested in the Root Cause for why schools are soo fucked
I'm sorry, but the one time I'll agree with a public school teacher when they complain is when they are complaining about teaching to the test.
Are you familiar with the Prussian education model? If you want to research what went wrong with our system, I would recommend reading The Underground History of American Education or, for a quicker version, read an article by the author, called Six-Lesson Schoolteacher.
The problem with our system is almost entirely due to the basis for the system itself, not the teachers. Please let me know if this helps.
It's a good question, and the honest answer is I don't entirely know. I've only been alive for about thirty years, and most of this occurred long before I was born.
I think I can tell you why, though, and I think the same answer would apply to the question of why leftists dominate other arenas like education.
The power of politics is not who occupies the office. Not in a democracy or in a republic. Every person in power is one election away from losing that power. The only way to build enduring power is to control the culture.
There's a wonderful book I would recommend anybody to read, called The Underground History of American Education which discusses the strategy which I believe is in play: if you control the levers of public consciousness, you passively control that populace.
It would be a bit difficult to believe that our diverse media climate could be coordinated, except that just six corporations collectively control 90% of the American media market. We have the illusion of diverse opinion, but not the reality of it.
I also recommend John Taylor Gatto's The Underground History of American Education in which he argues that the apparent failures of modern education are in fact successes: the system was deliberately set up to prevent learning.
Availble online here: mhkeehn.tripod.com/ughoae.pdf but I also recommend the hard copy available from Amazo here: http://www.amazon.com/Underground-History-American-Education-Investigation/dp/0945700040
Oh, it's so much worse than you libs imagine.