(Part 3) Top products from r/exchristian

ME

Hey! Funny, I had tacos for dinner last night. Now that I'm not working in [city], it's a lot harder to get out there for taco tuesday, but you're right, we do need to meet up, and doing so with tacos would be great! I just looked at my calendar...I don't have an open tuesday until freaking NOVEMBER. We'll have to plan something different....how do your weekends usually look? Maybe we can meet up for a Saturday morning breakfast or something.

>How about this, how can the solution to so many problems that people have and have had for years not be real?

Are there not a countless number of other solutions that people have attempted and been successful at? Are there not mental tricks that work in pulling people out of personal slumps? Is the placebo effect not real? Is the "God" solution really that special of a solution?

>I know you say you haven't had much personal experience with God working in your life but I know I have and I know rooms full of people who share their experiences and testimonies reversing the course of their lives through God when nothing else worked.

Have you looked into testimonials or experiences of people who have made significant changes without God? If not, then this is simply confirmation bias. If you continually go to rooms full of Christians claiming God changed their life and you don't go to the rooms where the Buddhist says Buddha changed his life, then OF COURSE all you're going to see is God changing lives.

>I really feel the evidence is in the transformation of these people's lives and my own and comes through the spiritual plane that you referenced. I know you would say it's a combination of chemical factors in brain activity but it still took introducing God into the equation that triggered those reactions changes that are very real.

Is the feeling that something is evidence good enough to lead to there actually being evidence? Again, people have had transformations for plenty of reasons, God being one of them, but it's not the only reason. What if I had a life changing transformation because I chose to accept that Krishna was the ultimate creator? If I accept that sure, my life sucks now, but if I strive to be good, ultimately I'll be reincarnated into a better situation? Say I've sat in rooms full of people talking about how they've been reincarnated into better people, or people describing how their life changed once they accepted that they will be reincarnated, and I feel that those transformations are the evidence for that being true, does that make it actually true? Furthermore, now that I've witnessed transformation accounts from the Christian, the Hindu, and the Buddhist, how do I make a determination on which one is actually true? Are they all true? Is one of them true? Maybe none are true? How would I know? Because they all access this "spiritual plane" as their source of divine improvement...obviously, they can't all be right, but how do we figure out which one is?

>The second thought I had was what about prophecy? I know you have talked about the history of the Bible being unreliable in some ways but like how do you reconcile Daniel and his interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's dream and then Alexander the Great coming in dividing that Kingdom and then it being divided again into the four kingdoms Daniel spoke about. Obviously that's one example of hundreds but has been historically proven.

This is actually a very interesting topic to look into. So, what ABOUT prophecy? With Daniel, there is more literary evidence leading us to believe that it was written much, much later than the events being written about than there is evidence for it being actually prophetic in nature. The Wikipedia article on Daniel does a decently thorough job of summarizing the scholarly consensus and the reasons why it's a literary construct of a much later time. There is a ton devoted to Daniel within Biblical scholarship, so if you want some reading recommendations beyond the wiki page, I can pull together some material for you. On prophecies in general, there is an entire RationalWiki page dedicated to that as well. I personally went through the Matthean prophecies of the birth account and cited OT sources with my own commentary on why they don't hold. This was a project I started probably a year or two ago, which ultimately died as I got pulled into other interests, but if you'd like that spreadsheet I can dig it up as well. As far as prophecies being "historically proven"...you might want to dig a bit deeper into that statement. For every christian source describing the fulfillment of a prophecy, look up the scholarly commentary as well and compare the two. I guarantee that as you do that, each prophecy will look more and more suspicious.

Really, to look into this more broadly, you'd want to look into the dating of the biblical books and why we think they're dated as such. You'll find yourself pulled into the Documentary Hypothesis, Dueternomistic History, etc. Actually, I was listening to a lecture series on Audible, "The World of Biblical Israel", which goes into some detail on why scholars on the whole believe the Bible didn't really begin it's composition until after the Israelites were captured by the Babylonians.

On somewhat of a related note, a book I just finished that I found very interesting/enlightening was Avigdor Shinan's "From gods to God". This book gives a very thorough scholarly treatment to a lot of the hmmmm moments of the OT, tying out passages to potential sources. If you're interested in reading it, send me your address and I'll buy you a copy :)

As usual, it's great talking with you. Let me know if you want to do a Saturday breakfast or something, I have a greater chance of getting that to happen than I do making Taco Tuesday happen.
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>[We met up for a Saturday breakfast and I passed off a book by John Loftus, "Why I Became an Atheist"
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ME

Thought I'd forward along where [preacher] and I are currently at. It's the same document as before, just longer now. It picks up on page 9 with his response. I'm left ultimately disappointed in his arguments, for various reasons I'm sure you'll pick up on. Anyways, how's the book?? (If you've cracked it yet, that is).
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FRIEND

Thanks Bud, honestly it's hard for me to read this stuff and not get a headache but I'm glad to have some insight into your brain working things out. As I said I'm not much of a reader but I am working to do a little more of it. Sorry that [preacher]'s answers aren't satisfying. Did you ever finish the video I sent you? I found another one that I've had to listen to a few times to wrap my head around and thought you might like it if you want I'll send it to you. Not sure what your schedule is looking like for October but we should try for breakfast again in the next 3 or 4 weeks. Hope you guys are in good health . Talk to you soon.

P.s what are your thoughts on subatomic particles? They're supposed to make up the entire universe but nobody's ever seen one so do they exist?
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ME

I will say: if my conversations with [preacher] make your head hurt...boy, you’re in for a treat with that book lol Listen, if there’s anything I’ve said that you want clarification on, please let me know. I don’t want you to come away thinking I said one thing when I meant something different, you know? Did it at least make sense WHY his arguments were unsatisfying?

As to finishing the video, are you talking about the Ravi Zacharius one? If so, yes, and I’ve watched a handful more of his talks as well. I will say that he is a very entertaining speaker and I get some enjoyment from listening to him, however his arguments are the same old ones simply rehashed and elongated to fit his speaking style. It’s nothing I haven’t heard before, which means it’s still unconvincing. When it comes to apologetics, there is never really any new way of saying anything, it’s simply said a different way in hopes that it may sneak by someone’s suspicions.

As far as meeting up, I’d love to at some point. Let me look at my schedule and get back to you.
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>[This is where the email exchange ends. We've exchanged a few messages via text and we've met up for another Saturday breakfast, but at that point he hadn't cracked the book yet. As of today, we haven't connected for about 6 months.

Indoctrination of children is one of the things that annoys me the most. Not only because it happened to me, but because it's part of evangelists' strategy to stop the decline of Christianity: the 4/14 window.

If it's not your own kids, there's not much you can do, unfortunately. But here are some thoughts:

• Spend time with them and build trust
  
• Avoid telling them outright what or what not to believe.
  
• Get them interested in science as much as possible. Maybe steer away from evolution for the moment (but nothing stops you talking about it if they bring it up). Nurture their curiosity about the sun, the stars, animals... Basic astronomy and basic biology.
  
• This is trickier, but let them realize that some people aren't Christian and that's OK too. For example, in October, you could talk to them about Diwali : "You know, at this time of year in India, people put out rows of candles outside!" If the kids ask why, you can give them a reply, like: "To celebrate the victory of good over evil." You don't need to go any further, but they'll know that people of other faiths (and no faiths) also have rituals, celebrations to celebrate similar concepts.
  
• For great practical ideas (conversation starters, easy to do science experiments, etc) I found the book Raising Freethinkers really helpful.
  
  Good luck! :)

That's one of my favorite popular science books, so it's wonderful to hear you're getting so much out of it. It really is a fascinating topic, and it's sad that so many Christians close themselves off to it solely to protect their religious beliefs (though as you discovered, it's good for those religious beliefs that they do).

As a companion to the book you might enjoy the Stated Clearly series of videos, which break down evolution very simply (and they're made by an ex-Christian whose education about evolution was part of his reason for leaving the religion). You might also like Coyne's blog, though these days it's more about his personal views than it is about evolution (but some searching on the site will bring up interesting things he's written on a whole host of religious topics from Adam and Eve to "ground of being" theology). He does also have another book you might like (Faith Versus Fact: Why Science and Religion are Incompatible), though I only read part of it since I was familiar with much of it from his blog.

> If you guys have any other book recommendations along these lines, I'm all ears!

You should definitely read The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, if only because it's a classic (and widely misrepresented/misunderstood). A little farther afield, one of my favorite popular science books of all time is The Language Instinct by Steven Pinker, which looks at human language as an evolved ability. Pinker's primary area of academic expertise is child language acquisition, so he's the most in his element in that book.

If you're interested in neuroscience and the brain you could read How the Mind Works (also by Pinker) or The Tell-Tale Brain by V. S. Ramachandran, both of which are wide-ranging and accessibly written. I'd also recommend Thinking, Fast and Slow by psychologist Daniel Kahneman. Evolution gets a lot of attention in ex-Christian circles, but books like these are highly underrated as antidotes to Christian indoctrination -- nothing cures magical thinking about the "soul", consciousness and so on as much as learning how the brain and the mind actually work.

If you're interested in more general/philosophical works that touch on similar themes, Douglas R. Hofstadter's Gödel, Escher, Bach made a huge impression on me (years ago). You might also like The Mind's I by Hofstadter and Daniel Dennett, which is a collection of philosophical essays along with commentaries. Books like these will get you thinking about the true mysteries of life, the universe and everything -- the kind of mysteries that have such sterile and unsatisfying "answers" within Christianity and other mythologies.

Don't worry about the past -- just be happy you're learning about all of this now. You've got plenty of life ahead of you to make up for any lost time. Have fun!

So, first, and I realize this isn't exactly comforting, but there will be a freak out time no matter what. There will be some time where you feel like the world is ending, and no matter what you do, it will still feel that way. It was that way for me (though we aren't the same, so maybe your experience will differ): every night, up late, praying and sweating and crying. Is there someone in the real world you can talk to? Having a meat body to grab onto for comfort is huge. Also, I wish I'd known about Reddit (not sure if it existed yet) when I went through my biz. This subreddit would have been amazing.

Ironically, part of what pushed me out of Christianity was learning more about it: being really on fire for it. When you learn church history from the church, it's very skewed and specialized, but when you step out of that and examine it from an objective historical point of view, things get crazy. And more calming.

In case you missed it elsewhere in this thread, John Shelby Spong was very comforting for me.

I think A History of God gets mentioned on this sub at least once a day. It's not an easy read, but immensely illuminating as it shows that, essentially, the guy we call god with a capital G is really just a lesser Canaanite deity worshiped by an insane shepherd. But because of Abraham's weird life, all of western history plays out.

It's been awhile since I read Jesus Interrupted, but if I remember correctly, it's about how what the historical Jesus probably said (because we can't possibly know) has been manipulated by history to satisfy different political goals.

Zealot tries to recreate to the best of the author's ability Jesus' world, the philosophies he grew up with, and the philosophies he most likely would have taught. Some parts of this read like an amazing novel, and it has some crazy historical stuff. It really blew my mind.

I read Pagan Christianity right at the start of my dark night. I've mentioned it before, and it confirmed a lot of my suspicions about Christianity actually being fancied up paganism (Zealot discusses that a little as well). It's written from very much a contemporary Christian perspective, so it has some errors that drive me nuts: i.e. Jesus almost certainly wouldn't have ever meant he and god were literally the same, because no half-serious Jewish person of any era would assert that.

It's stupid late where I am (and my toddler already makes sure I'm constantly sleep deprived), so the last thing I'll leave you with:

When I was going through my "dark night of the soul," I still considered myself Christian afterward for quite awhile. It's just that the kind of Christian I felt I had become was so radically different from what I had been that it warranted night sweats and crying. Since then, each progressive deconversion has been less and less painful by magnitudes. But while I was going through it, I kept thinking about a quote in some book I'd read about how, "God made you with the brain you have, the talents you have, the interests you have, and the curiosity you have: pursue that and glorify god." I reasoned (and I feel this is pretty solid) that if god were real, he'd have to be so outside our everyday experience that no one is getting it right; because if he weren't that alien to us, if he was even slightly comprehensible, he couldn't be god. And if god were real, he'd (it?) know how incomprehensible he is, and unless he were insane or evil, he couldn't possibly be just in punishing us for doing whatever we thought was best and in good conscience. The process was still painful, but it definitely made me feel better about ripping off that hairy band-aid.

If you don't already, I'd recommend writing as you go through all this. If you can stomach it, put it some place public, like a blog, so people can bear witness.

Dammit. I said I was going to bed 20 minutes ago.

Sorry-but-not-sorry for the wall of text.

For starters, and I hope this doesn't come off weird, masturbate. One of the best ways to be better with a partner is to know your own body and to learn what you like and how you like it. Second, communicate with your partner about what you want and need before, during, and after sex, and ask her what she needs from you, as well.

I would also suggest checking out this book - Understanding Human Sexuality (https://www.amazon.com/dp/0073382620/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_W7XSub0BNY67H). I studied it for Psychology of Human Sexuality, and it provides excellent and subjective info on everything from the biological mechanics of sex and reprpduction to STDs to relationships and dating. There is some info in there about counseling and therapy, as it is a psychology textbook, but you may even find value in that.

And remember, not every time you have intercourse will be amazing. Sometimes there's simply no spark, and sometimes it's over too quickly. It happens to everyone, and this is another area where communication is key.

Best of luck!

WARNING: Long post ahead!

I admire your desire to avoid confirmation bias and develop a stronger and more reasoned system of beliefs. I also appreciate your honesty in admitting that in some sense, you wish that Christianity could still be true. The pain you are experiencing from questioning long-held beliefs is very familiar to many folks on this sub.

You're not alone. And you should definitely not give up. :)

However:

>>I will follow the evidence wherever it leads.

I'll warn you up front that if you do this, you will probably be led away from any sort of belief in Christianity. Christianity is a religion whose truth or falsehood hinges upon specific historical claims. If Jesus either (1) did not exist, or (2) existed but was not divine and did not resurrect from the dead, then Christianity literally cannot be true. And having walked the same path you're on, I found that the evidence led me to abandoning Christianity. I'm an engineer myself, and eventually I had to accept that the historical evidence just doesn't support Christianity.

With that being said, I've been reading the other posts and discussions here thus far, and it sounds to me like you're stuck between two difficult options: (1) a genuine desire to be intellectually honest, no matter the cost, and (2) facing the difficulty of abandoning a belief system which has been a major part of your marriage and your family. If you want to walk the line between the two, I would recommend that you adopt a rationalistic form of classical Deism or Theism. Accepting a "minimalistic theism," as you put it, might be pragmatically very useful. It could help smooth out any potential conflicts you might have with your spouse and children. At this emotionally difficult time, that could be very beneficial to both you and them. It could also help your family start to look at religious belief in a more rational light, just as you do.

If you haven't already, take a look at some of the best Christian apologists out there --- John Lennox, William Lane Craig, Gary Habermas, Alvin Plantinga, and the like. I didn't find them convincing, but reading their arguments could probably help you develop a more intellectually rigorous belief system.

Also, take a look at some books written by theistic evolutionists, such as Evolutionary Creation: A Christian Approach to Evolution by Denis Lamoureux, and The Lost World of Genesis One by John Walton. These scholars have had no difficult reconciling science with theism, and they might help you in your quest to develop a minimalist theistic belief system.

Finally, this process can be long and painful, and you shouldn't rush yourself through it. Take your time.

And as always, please use this sub for questions and support when you need. If you have more questions, or want to discuss this further, let me know.

I highly recommend reading Greta Christina's book Coming Out Atheist: How to Do It, How to Help Each Other, and Why. She's compiled many coming out stories and has a lot of advice about how to come out to people. There's a chapter on how to come out to your spouse.

I also recommend reading Dale McGowan's In Faith and In Doubt: How Religious Believers and Nonbelievers Can Create Strong Marriages and Loving Families. As the title implies, it has advice on how a religiously mixed couple (one religious and the other not) can have a wonderful relationship and raise kid together without seeing eye-to-eye on the supernatural. Like Christina did in her book, McGowan interviewed a lot of people and the book is a compilation of the tips and tricks people have learned.

Thinking Fast and Slow. Starting reading it and I love it. Written by a Nobel Prize winner, he actually includes the papers in the back that much of the book is based on. He goes over the cognitive biases of humans. Definitely worth a look.

To take a step back, how do you see this dialogue going? If you give them resources or make arguments, do you expect them to listen, say "good point," and accept that your position is valid?

Said another way, stuff that's convincing to you won't be convincing to them, and vice versa. After a few long conversations, I couldn't even get my family to admit the possibility that they may be wrong about their faith, or even that believers of other religions feel their religion to be true in the same way they do (and aren't deluded by Satan). Might be useful to start there rather than diving into the deep end with God Doesn't Exist.

It's a tough road ahead. Getting that first crack in the "the bible is 100% perfect" armor is a huge deal. For me it came in OT history (specifically the nonexistence of the Exodus and the book of Daniel, for which even N.T. Wright accepts a late date), which is easier to debunk than the NT stuff. Good luck.

Here's one though: check out works by former pastors and missionaries, like this book or this blog (the author of which has unfortunately passed away). When I was still on my journey I was basically immune to arguments from atheists, but these guys could get through.

If you haven't already picked up [A Manual for Creating Atheists] (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LKBT0MC/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1), I'd recommend it. It covers some ways to have these discussions that aren't particularly aggressive or "preachy", if you're worried about that.

[Anthony Magnabosco] (https://www.youtube.com/user/magnabosco210) has an entire channel dedicated to videos of him using these techniques. Some of them are quite interesting.

>What's the difference between things like street epistemology and street preachers?

The difference is that the former is a reasonable, polite, discussion with their permission and the latter is screaming, ranting, bullshitting, and public disturbance with nobody's permission.

If you aren't comfortable hitting the streets and having conversations with strangers like Anthony, just familiarize yourself with the techniques and use them in your own personal discussions when people you know are willing and comfortable with it.

Are you going to a Christian college? If so, I'm very sorry, I had a terrible experience at one also. I also struggled with depression, struggled with my grades and with my faith.

I would strongly recommend you request another counselor, one that cares more about your mental health than your spiritual health. I wouldn't be afraid to ask them that out the outset either.

I'd also see if you can get on some anti-depressants. They don't help everyone, but for the people they do help it can be a massive improvement with little effort.

If you can't find a better counselor and can't afford one outside of your school I would recommend Feeling Good by David Burns. It's less than $10 and if you take it seriously and are willing to engage with it, the cognitive behavioral therapy it teaches you can be just as or more effective than therapy and medication.

I know it feels like the end of the world right now, but it's not to late to right this ship. Struggling in college is overwhelming, and as things get worse it gets harder and harder to get out of bed, much less your room. Doing assignments and bringing them to class can seem a herculean effort, meanwhile you see all your peers breezing through with seemingly no effort. All I can say is that all of this can be fixed, classes can be retaken, and all it will cost you is one semester, many others have wasted many more. Once you get a handle on your depression things will get easier.

A LINK to a preview inside the book.

EDIT: Be prepared for this one, make sure you're sitting down. You may laugh too hard:

Q: What do you call pastors in Germany?

A: German shepherds.

I know of a couple of books written by ex-evangelicals that might be useful to you at this time in your life:

godless

or Why I Believed

Why I believed is also free here

Try a rock concert. You'll feel the same euphoria, no wonder it's considered evil. Also might try r/frission. Or just a video game soundtrack, those work the same way.

Problem with your feelings is not that nobody else felt them, but that we can recreate them without the religion, even with just drugs. And there's also the problem where we know for certain, that religious events are carefully organized, using well known methods, same as any worldly event, to induce those feelings. Much like Moses with the snake, religion's tricks can be recreated by worldly means. It's just carefully applied psychology.

Speaking of psychology. Try reading Why Does He Do That, it has zero mention of religion, but it might give you some insight into how it works, and why people here reacted so angrily at your (for all you knew) innocent questions.

the real gems are the super cool comments from people who bought the book also

my advice is to buy your mother-in-law one or all of these books:

• jason rosenhouse's among the creationists

• richard dawkin's the greatest show on earth

• jerry a. coyne's why evolution is true

• bill nye's undeniable: evolution and the science of creation

edit: a word.

Did you know Amazon will donate a portion of every purchase if you shop by going to smile.amazon.com instead? Over $50,000,000 has been raised for charity - all you need to do is change the URL!

Here are your smile-ified links:

The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Why Evolution Is True

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible

Why There Is No God

Jesus, Interrupted

The God Argument

Deconverted: A Journey from Religion to Reason

---

^^i'm ^^a ^^friendly bot

If you like reading, you might benefit from this book

Get yourself a moral compass with some secular moral science. https://www.amazon.com/Moral-Landscape-Science-Determine-Values/dp/143917122X

You'll be happier, I guarantee it.

Anything by Robert Price or Bart Ehrman for a secular academic understanding of the Bible. Great if you're into history and ancient cultures or want to understand how Christianity came about.

A friend actually bought me the book, and I did end up reading it. I ended up giving him Forged by Bart Ehrman, as I thought the arguments were fairly strong and had more of an academic feel compared to some of his more popular works, but my friend never bothered to read it. I have also given away The Historical Figure of Jesus by EP Sanders, who is a respectable and honest NT scholar. I've even seen the book on some bookshelves belonging to Christians, even though Sanders argues how some stories in the NT aren't historical and even at times contradictory.

When reading IDHEFTBAA, I ended up taking notes with points I disagreed with or found problematic and noted the page number. I personally found the book weak. It tries to cover so many topics ranging from philosophy, morality, evolution, and history all crammed into 400 pages, and the authors don't specialize in any of those topics. The authors say that evidence is provided "every step of the way", yet make a lot assertions. For example, they claim that 11 out of the 12 disciples died for their beliefs, yet don't cite a single source. Also, semantics are also played throughout the book and over simplifies or misrepresents issues. I actually did find the book somewhat enjoyable to read though.

I read the book Raising Freethinkers and it helped me feel more comfortable about how to raise kids in a secular manner. My experience was fundamentalist indoctrination. It talks about how to talk to kids about religion without telling them what to think.

I didn't leave God. I just slowly came to the realization that the bible wasn't true. About two years ago, I went to a series of talks led by Tim Keller (yes, that famous Christian pastor with NY Times bestselling books) discussing reasons for believing. I went with a friend fully intending on bolstering my faith. I think I went to most of the talks and it had the opposite effect. I realized that what Keller was using as evidence of the divine was nonexistent and flimsy at best. I also made the realization here that just because someone has a PhD. and is a so-called expert on a subject doesn't mean he is right about it.

Anyway some seekers groups spun off these talks and I joined one. Every week we would gather together and discuss all of the questions people have when it comes to God: the problem of evil, the problem of suffering, science and the bible, etc., etc. The group was led by Christians and, of course, the intent was to convert. (I just want to note here that I met some great people through this. I didn't have any traumatic experiences with other Christians unlike other people in this sub). Anyway, these discussions just raised more issues with the bible and got me thinking more and more about it. I just began to realize how absurd the claims of the bible were.

Finally, I started reading Bart Ehrman. He is a professor at UNC and a former bible-believing Christian, who went to seminary. I read one of his books [How Jesus Became God] (https://www.amazon.com/How-Jesus-Became-God-Exaltation/dp/0061778192/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1502669542&sr=8-6&keywords=bart+ehrman) and it was eye-opening. I also started reading material from other skeptics. From that I learned that the Gospels do not agree with one another. In fact, they differ in the details of their stories. For instance, the Gospels disagree on how Judas died. Second, the stories in the Gospels were transmitted orally for years until they were finally written down in Greek. They were not written by eyewitnesses! As someone who's played the telephone game you know that stories change as they are relayed from one person to the next. I finally made the realization that the idea of Jesus grew until we have what we have today in the Christian church.

There are a lot of other things I am leaving out, but that's the gist. I urge you to do more research on this topic and read what non-Christians have to say about the bible. You might be surprised by what you learn. I know I was.

Mark S Smith - The Early History of God
(warning - a bit more scholarly than the other more populist books below)

https://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X

Avigdor Shinan - From Gods to God

https://www.amazon.com/Gods-God-Debunked-Suppressed-Changed/dp/0827609086

The Bible Unearthed - Israel Finkelstein

https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136

Who Wrote the Bible, and The Exodus - Richard Friedman

https://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353

https://www.amazon.com/Exodus-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0062565249

I'm not sure if I can commit to that. However, if you haven't already maybe check out A Manual for Creating Atheists, or watch some of the videos on Anthony Magnabosco's channel for some tips on a softer, more persuasive approach to these kinds of interactions.

Did Jesus Exist? by Bart Ehrman is a good overview of the evidence.

Read this book, and keep it hidden from him

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656

if he is a narcissist by the way no counseling in the world is going to have an affect. Especially if he is malignant. Silent treatments are a sign of emotional abuse and the manipulation too.

Buying the guns worry me too. Also the suicide thing is disturbing too. Please do not leave in a way that he knows or tell him you are leaving. This is a guy you need to start hiding the money and planning a way to vanish without him knowing it, like when he is at work. That is some advice Lundy gives. I can see him beating you or hurting you if you tried to leave. Religion to be frank to this guy is just a control mechanism over you, to guilt you. He may not even really believe in it himself, it is about CONTROL and the church systems back up the support and control of the little women. When my marriage had trouble around 10 years qgo--he lost his career and we were under severe economic pressures, the churches treated me like utter shit. we were near splitting up, we were able to get counseling, and have things work out, but in my case there was freedom of belief and 15 years of otherwise happy marriage, the marriage survived and grew stronger. I am not sure you have much to work with here. If he doesn't respect your beliefs and who you are, that is missing a core foundation.

It is great that she has doubts but there is no guarantee that she will de-convert. You might check out Dale McGowan's new book on atheist/Christian marriages to get some research-backed info on how to make it work: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0814433723?pc_redir=1411223486&robot_redir=1 (sorry, on mobile)

You might want to check this out (especially the audio book narrated by James Urbaniak) :

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1603090983/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=

You should really give this book a read:

https://www.amazon.com/Moral-Landscape-Science-Determine-Values/dp/143917122X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499307509&sr=8-1&keywords=sam+harris+the+moral+landscape

> You know there's this book?

This book?

There's even a book about it.

Here is the mobile version of your link

Bart Ehrman has a book on the subject that looks at all the evidence for Jesus existence.

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https://www.amazon.com/Did-Jesus-Exist-Historical-Argument/dp/0062206443/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1539691375&sr=8-1&keywords=did+jesus+exist

> How do I get rid of this?

Study that shit like it's a college course. Journal the exact messages that pop into your head, word for word, for maybe a 2-4 week time period. Journal the time of day or what was happening at the time these messages appeared in your mind. Once you have the journal, you will most likely find there's a few repetitive messages that play like old tapes from your childhood, maybe 5 or 6 set on repeat. You hopefully will also uncover the situations that 'trigger' these old tapes to play. (For me, when the negative tapes from my abusive childhood begin to play, it often means I need to eat.) Write out your arguments AGAINST these few core tapes, that prove these old tapes to be utter bullshit with ZERO connnection to reality. After that, it's simply a matter of countering these old tapes with your arguments that prove the tapes false, every time they pop into your head, such that their power over you is reduced over time as you continue to argue against and talk back to these thoughts, in order to put them in their place in the clear light of reality.

It might be helpful to read up on cognitive distortions since these old tapes we carry often are cognitive distortions. A book that can help you with this is Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy . Although it was written for those with depression, the material has much to do with uncovering the cognitive distortions we can carry about ourselves.

This was what first made me start the process of deconversion. I had for a long time held that some form of theistic evolution must be true. I had read Francis Collins, and John Walton books, and thought my reasoning was logical.

The tiny seeds of my eventual deconversion were planted however in a discussion/debate with my mother-in-law. She is a staunch creationist, doesn't think anyone who believes in evolution can possibly be a christian. We had a long discussion about the issue, and she kind of came around to my point of view--or at least didn't think I was going straight to hell anymore. But in the course of this conversation, she off-handedly made some comment about evolution meaning there was always death. We didn't really talk about the subject any more than that.

But it kept popping into my mind over the coming days. And for some reason, I had never considered this idea before. Months later, after much research, reading and considering, I came to realize that I could find no acceptable explanation for what "the fall" was, if it was a merely symbolic event. If there was always sickness and pain and death from day one, then the world was always "fallen". And without a fall, my understanding of who Jesus was and what he did was on VERY shaky ground. So it was the beginning of the end for me.