(Part 2) Top products from r/polyamory

One of two things is probably going to happen.

Scenario One: You'll talk to her about it and she'll go "Really!? Me too!"

Scenario Two: You'll talk to her about it and she'll go "WTF!? Why don't you love me anymore!?"

The fact that an open relationship and sex with others has been brought up without the sky falling in is a good sign but partners can sometimes get into a situation where they smile and nod at something, hoping it's just a phase and you'll forget about it after a while.

Real talk; you need to accept the fact that it may turn out that what the two of you want and are comfortable with is different and ultimately incompatible. I'm not saying that's what will happen but it's a possibility you need to be prepared for so you're not blindsided.

Before you talk to her, you need to get a handle on how you feel and start learning some of the language to talk about poly and the associated emotions. Kimchi Cuddles is a pretty low intensity look at the poly world through a humorous angle and it's actually written by a person who is poly so the perspectives and language in it come from a place of knowledge. You can also save comics that address particular problems or have discussions in them that resonate particularly strongly for you.

Beyond that, there's Hardy and Easton's Ethical Slut which is (and should be) a standard issue "Welcome to poly!" book and Deborah Anapol's book Polyamory in the 21st Century.

Both texts aren't flawless, I have irks with both as do many others but for someone looking to get a toe-hold they're pretty good.

I'd recommend starting with Kimchi Cuddles, then moving on to Ethical Slut. Polyamory in the 21st Century is optional but more in-depth.

The important thing is to talk with your partner now. Make them aware that you're thinking about this kind of stuff so they don't get blindsided later on when you've been reading and thinking for a month with them completely unaware. Maybe look for more concrete responses to the idea of an open relationship.

Unless you get the second scenario, there's going to be some hurt. It's extremely difficult to avoid. You just have to keep stressing that this isn't because of a failure on her part and that you still love and care for her.

Thank you for being so brave and reaching out.
Anything that is new can be very scary, and hard to process. Read more about the material, and know that people change a lot during life. I am not the same person I was at 15, or 20, and I wont be the same person when I am 40 or 50. I know people who were monogamous, poly, then mono again and are happy with their life. I know people who have always been poly, and are happy with their lives too!
Here are a few good books to look at:

Ethical slut. Great 101 read, it has information for both poly and mono people. It helps explore what poly means to a LOT of people, and what sexuality means for a LOT of people.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Ethical-Slut-Infinite-Possibilities/dp/1890159018/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1380731411&sr=8-2&keywords=ethical+slut

Opening up, sort of the next level in poly reading. More complex poly concepts, and a whole lot of information on various poly relationship types. A bit of a long read, but very interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Sustaining-Relationships-ebook/dp/B001GCUCV8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380731474&sr=8-1&keywords=opening+up

Sex at dawn a bit heavy on the poly propaganda, but a very well researched book. It explores poly through the ages, and various biological imperatives which suggest we are more poly then we originally thought.

http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Modern-Relationships-ebook/dp/B007679QTG/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1380731535&sr=1-1&keywords=sex+at+dawn

I have been in the poly community for some 10 years now, with all the troubles beauty and heart ache that entails. The best lesson I ever learned was be true to myself, and be kind to my self. You will mess up, I certainly did, but you will learn and find some better truth. Do not hesitate to reach out, if you need any further advice or just kind words let me know.

There is a decent book now, Polyamory and Pregnancy. I recommend giving it a read, to help raise questions you all haven't thought through yet.

In my relationship my gf is currently trying to get pregnant by my spouse. She was pregnant recently but miscarried. We already have 1 child (biologically mine) and would like to have a few more in total.

A parenting agreement drawn up by a lawyer is extremely useful. If you all intend to stay together long term, seeing a lawyer is a good idea anyway, it forces you to put together wills, medical power of attorney, etc. We have found the process quite useful. I can recommend a poly friendly lawyer if you are interested.

http://www.amazon.com/Polyamory-Pregnancy-Purpose-Guides-Volume/dp/1482307022

Along with a lot of the responses here, making a major decision like this over an evening's conversation raises some concern for your and your wife's approach and the longevity of the relationship.

Non-monogamy has a lot of nuances, a lot will be discovered over several months of conversation and actively dating outside of this relationship, but few over one conversation.

​

I would suggest taking a step back and educating yourselves, together, to learn more about what it means for your future:

1: Read open relationship and poly books together. Here are a few I'd suggest:

- Smart Girl's Guide to Polyamory

- Opening Up

- Polyamory in the 21st Century

2: Listen to the Multiamory Podcast on topics that you get stuck on or become aware of

- Multiamory

3: It also seems like a lot of assumptions are being made without explicit discussions. A core tenent of non-monogamy is honest communication.

>I have no reason to believe...

- Have you explicitly asking, "Is there anyone you're actively interested in pursuing right now or someone that's pursuing you?

>she’s never really viewed sex as a “big deal”

- Then why open up the relationship? For sex? To capture a sense of who she used to be? Who did she used to be? These questions aren't meant to discount your wife's needs/desires/wants to open up, but getting to the core reason of opening up will make the purpose, form, and function of your and other relationships clear.

4: YOU don't have to practice non-monogamy just because your partner does. A lot of people will say a mono-poly relationship doesn't work. I don't subscribe to that belief. As long as the relationship is equal, it doesn't always means it's even - and that's your choice.

5: It doesn't matter how much you educate yourself, you'll make mistakes along the way. Have room for yourself and your partner/wife to make mistakes AND be willing to forgive for them as well as forgive yourself. It will require a level of serious honesty and willingness to be vulnerable and have courage.


Good luck!

More Than Two by Franklin Veaux. If The Ethical Slut is the non-monogamy bible, then More than Two is the Polyamory handbook. It is a must read.


Opening Up by Tristan Taormino. Opening Up is a good supplementary book. Overall not as good as More than Two, but it has some unique takes on poly that is worth reading.


Eight Things I Wish I'd Known About Polyamory by Minx M. Honestly I have not gotten around to reading this yet, but it is by Cunning Minx of the Polyamory Weekly podcast, so the author knows what she is talking about.


Sex at Dawn by Christopher Ryan. This books it last on my list because it tries to pawn itself off as science when in truth it is more of philosophy. It makes good arguments, and backs them up with some data, but the evidence is nowhere as strong as Dr. Ryan wants to claim.

EDITED TO ADD:

If you are going to do non-monogamy it is always a good idea to improve your communication skills. Here are some recommended books on improving communication skills.

The Usual Error. This is a more basic communication book. It is a really good read that will point out some basic mistakes you probably make in communicating.

Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life. This is almost a whole new way of communicating. It is advanced level communications skills. Even incorporating some of the ideas in this book will help you tremendously in hard conversations.

I recommend you start by reading everything at www.morethantwo.org

Then maybe read this http://www.amazon.com/Polyamory-Roadmaps-Clueless-Anthony-Ravenscroft/dp/1890109533/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382175373&sr=8-1-fkmr2&keywords=polyamory+a+guide+book+for+the+clueless+and+hopeful

Then find a local poly group in your area, keep in mind a lot of the poly groups are not mixers or cruising sites they are places for people to talk and learn about the community.

Join Ok Cupid. Make a profile. Answer the poly friendly questions in an honest manner. (you may find that you're more or less poly prone than you think.)

Get this plugin It will show you how people answered their poly friendly questions at a glance. (sadly only on chrome browser) https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/okcupid-for-non-mainstrea/cgdblghohnaeeejaoincmbcdkdnodkei?hl=en

From there its up to you and your ability to make a connection with some one. Good luck!

I enjoyed reading Marriage, a History: How Love Conquered Marriage by Stephanie Coontz, which covers what relationships looked like in several different time periods and cultures. Its a really good book, and addresses the questions you're asking. I read it when I was thinking about getting engaged and it helped me think about what I wanted my marriage to look like. What feels like the widely-held 'ideal' status quo now (monogomous life partners who provide emotional satisfaction) really is a fairly new idea.

https://www.amazon.com/Marriage-History-How-Love-Conquered/dp/014303667X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1527796012&sr=8-1&keywords=coontz+marriage

> Talking to people is really difficult for me.

And what are you doing about that?

> Thanks to some lovely conditioning from my parents, I feel like every emotional conversation I try to have is going to end up with me being the problem.

That totally sucks. My own hoarder, BPD mom left a lot of marks on my psyche...which is what therapy is for. And self-help books. And working on becoming a better person, a more truer version of you. So what are you doing to get to those things?

> I've tried mentioning it a few times, but I never really get much of a response other than "you don't seem like you want to be here". Of course that's a reaction to a perceived lack of desire, so I have no idea what's going on.

It sounds like you have work to do in communicating. Do you have insurance/can you get a therapist? If so, that's a great place to start. There are also a number of excellent books out there on communication - this book seems to have great reviews: https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Talking-Stakes-Second/dp/0071771328/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1468345548&sr=1-3&keywords=communication+skills. If you have a tablet or smartphone, you could download it right now and start learning how to communicate, so that you can nip this (and every other problem that comes up in your life that requires communication (and that would be ALL of them)) in the bud quickly.

This is a good article with links to other reading and a link to a quiz on your attachment style:
http://www.whatiscodependency.com/change-your-attachment-style/

And, it doesn't relate directly to attachment theory, but many of my friends have been helped through difficult emotions by this workbook:
Thoughts and Feelings: Taking Control of Your Moods and Your Life
http://www.amazon.com/Thoughts-Feelings-Taking-Control-Moods/dp/1608822087/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462973403&sr=8-1&keywords=thoughts+and+feelings

Best wishes to you.

Highly suggested reading:
More Than Two: A Practical Guide to Ethical Polyamory: https://www.amazon.com/More-Than-Two-Practical-Polyamory/dp/0991399706/

The Ethical Slut: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1587613379/

Opening Up: A Guide to Creating and Sustaining Open Relationships: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157344295X/

Eight Things I Wish I'd Known About Polyamory: Before I Tried It and Frakked It Up: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1500838160/

Game Changer: A Memoir of Disruptive Love: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DQ20WOC/

> She says she is now going into a new form of
> treatment and that he is very important to her
> healing process.

That is a manipulative statement. From what I've read in your previous post, your boyfriend is not good at keeping healthy boundaries and she is very good an being manipulative. Manipulative people can't get better if they get rewarded for being manipulative. The only way to not reward manipulative behavior is by keeping good boundaries. It can take years to learn how to keep boundaries with someone who is mentally ill. I know this from personal experience.

If you decide to stay with your boyfriend and he decides to maintain his relationship with her, then you need to learn to keep boundaries to keep yourself safe and sane.

Here are some resources you or your boyfriend might find useful:

CoDa

BPDFamily

Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder

Two of the links above are resources for people living with someone with borderline personality disorder (BPD). I do not know whether you boyfriend's girlfriend qualifies for a diagnosis of BPD along with bipolar disorder (BD). However, I think those resources will still be helpful. Manipulative behavior and out of control emotions are traits of BPD. Also, BPD and BD are frequently comorbid.

Also, read this: https://www.amazon.com/Eight-Things-Known-About-Polyamory-ebook/dp/B00JY2PLI6

It will give you some good guidelines on how to make it safe for the person you are bringing into your relationship. It's short, to the point, and a great read.

Have you read Taking Charge of Your Fertility? It's got a lot of awesome information that makes you go "why did no know ever teach me this?" I use condoms with my secondary, obviously. But it's great knowing exactly where in my cycle I am to get a general sense of riskiness. And also once you get good at pinpointing when you ovulate, you'll know just when to expect your period ahead of time (and won't have to stress that you're late because you're pregnant, since you know you just ovulated late).

ETA: http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your-Fertility-Anniversary/dp/0060881909/

I agree with everything you said, but polyamory isn't for everyone, nor is being gay. Perhaps point this gentleman to some literature which explains the poly ethos so the OP is sure he's informed about what he's getting into? If he says he's willing to wait it sounds like he doesn't understand what OP is really asking for, or doesn't believe her and thinks he can convince her otherwise (as you said). He just might not be the right person for the poly model. The usual reading, Ethical Slut and Sex at Dawn would probably suffice.

EDIT: I fully realize that Sex at Dawn is not the be-all-end-all statement on human sexuality. It exists within a large body of research. Some of that research validates the claims in S@D, some hotly disputes it.

At no point did I suggest someone take what it says (or what I say) at face value. Do your own reading. Form your own conclusions. Don't blindly accept something no matter who says it's true!

Sex at Dawn is very readable and approachable for most people, unlike many scientific journals. It exposes much of the cultural "standard narrative" most of us are taught and gives an opening for thought that disagrees with that.

IT IS A POSSIBLE STARTING POINT, NOT GOSPEL!


***


There is actually a fairly large body of scientific research that human beings as a species are not designed for biological monogamy. If you look at our closest genetic relatives, chimpanzees and bonobos, researchers see a great deal of behavior that is completely "natural" yet would make a conservatively minded human gasp, blush, or react with outrage.

I firmly believe non-monogamy in all it's forms, including polyamory, is a natural behavior for humans.

I also firmly believe monogamy is a social structure that is taught to us both openly and through our culture as the "Standard Narrative".

Ultimately I also believe it is everyone's individual choice what style relationships they want to be involved in.

Want more info on the scientific research? Sex at Dawn by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha is a great place to start.

This sounds like the classic "I hate you, don't leave me" behavior of someone with borderline personality disorder. There are a lot of good resources to help people mend relationships with loved ones who have BPD. I'm on my phone. Otherwise I would do a better job of summarizing the main points, but I can really recommend the book Loving Someone With Borderline Personality Disorder. http://www.amazon.com/Someone-Borderline-Personality-Disorder-Control/dp/1593856075

Ditto that about More Than Two. But if you'd prefer an excellent short book, here's Cunning Minx's Eight Things I Wish I'd Known About Polyamory (Before I Tried It and Frakked It Up).

I believe in being helpful first and critical second. So first some resources on poly since that seems to be the direction you want to explore. You're going to want to read these in particular the parts about open honest communication, taking a good long hard look at your feelings and analyzing them, and enthusiastic consent.

https://www.morethantwo.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Polyamory-Roadmaps-Clueless-Anthony-Ravenscroft/dp/1890109533

Second you might not be poly. A therapist might be a good start for you and your partner to work through and figure out why you are doing what you are doing.

Now critisism.

You might be poly. But that will never be an excuse for your cheating or your lying. I've never known poly to cure people of their dishonesty or low character. Something to keep in mind about poly communities the grape vine tends to talk a lot more due to the whole open honest communication thing. That usually means that when some one is caught lying and sneaking around it isn't just one or two people that find out, you can find your self on the outs with most of your community in a matter of minutes ruining the trust and friendship of a lot of people. Cheating can happen in poly just as in mono relationships. The fallout tends to be much worse due to the number of people involved. So while you try to figure out if you are poly also sort out your character as well.

Are you aware of Jessica Burde's book Polyamory and Pregnancy? Has some interesting perspectives. She's definitely been there, done that (several times).

www.amazon.com/Polyamory-Pregnancy-Purpose-Guides/dp/1482307022/ref=sr_1_1

Seconding the infinity heart. Also, as references go The Polyamorists Next Door is probably the most appropriate POV (generally descriptive, not a how-to book or a memoir).

Thank you guys. My counselor suggested http://www.amazon.com/Open-Marriage-Life-Style-Couples/dp/087131438X Was able to find it at a local bookstore and started reading that. Keep the suggestions coming ya'll!

There's a fantastic book on the subject, actually. Definitely check it out, if you haven't already.

There is definitely a book about how prehistoric people and ancient cultures e polyamorous...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sex-Dawn-Stray-Modern-Relationships/dp/1491512407

http://www.amazon.com/The-Red-Queen-Evolution-Nature/dp/0060556579

for those interested in a summary

Oh man, this is like the 3rd time in a week I get to recommend this.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Game-Changer-memoir-disruptive/dp/0991399757

The game changer, by the author of More Than Two. It's his personal story of his navigation through polyamory.

Yes. It's been an uphill struggle to have my relationships treated normally by my and my partners' families.

It's also well-documented, e.g. by Sheff, that poly families face all kinds of discrimination at multiple legal and social levels. Remember that the people who feel "uncomfortable" also vote.

I think its the same book. This is the cover I meant http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1880789086?cache=998440bea46adabe9e42b652406eb6b7&pi=SY200_QL40&qid=1412648404&sr=8-2#

Just wanted to give a shoutout to Franklin Veaux's book The Game Changer about this very question. (disclosure: I haven't read it, but have read and listened to him on the subject; very insightful)

Deborah Anapol, Polyamory: The New Love without Limits. I liked More Than Two but even before hearing these accusations, I preferred Anapol's book to Veaux's.

Don't forget these fiction/non-fiction works too:

Stranger in a Strange Land

The Red Queen

The Harrad Experiment

Open Marriage

I completely agree with this assessment. Really, any rules/boundaries/etc. should be based on not being a shitty human being, not what some guru says. If you want to deal with jealousy, which seems to be the most common problem, there are better books written by real psychiatrists. Jealousy and other negative emotions may have a foundation that isn't even related to your current relationships, but to childhood trauma or baggage from past relationships. My therapist recommended this workbook and I'll pass it on here. https://www.amazon.ca/Thoughts-Feelings-Taking-Control-Moods/dp/1608822087