Reddit reviews STEPPERONLINE Nema 17 Stepper Motor Bipolar 2A 59Ncm(84oz.in) 48mm Body 4-lead W/ 1m Cable and Connector compatible with 3D Printer/CNC

Well thank you. Now I get to expand the text field to full size, so that's fun. Warning, this is gon' be long. You might wanna grab a snack, or start walking to get one if you're reading this on your phone. I've got a full bottle of Shandy, and another round of four Team Valor keychains to print, so I've got about an hour to blast this out.

Alright. We'll start from the top. First, I'll go with the basics, the hardware, and I'll work up from there.

So, the motors. The Tiko uses the 28BYJ-48 motor as its base. Running flat out, this motor can achieve 15 RPM, and output about 7% of the torque a typical NEMA17 shelled motor could. Now, you'll notice something. Compared to the NEMA17 I listed, the 28BYJ-48 is cheap. Really cheap. As in, five of them costs the same as one NEMA17. Due to this, a lot of people look at these motors and go "wow, these are just barely strong enough to move a carriage. I betcha I could make a printer out of this!" After a little bit of work, most people give up, or by the time they're done, they've realized exactly why everyone else did. See, the 28BYJ-48 is cheating. That torque, the one that literally is only barely pushing above a 20th of the power a normal motor does comes from a 1:64 gearbox made of plastic inside the casing. If the machine ever exceeds that force, the motors start to lose teeth faster than a hockey team. The Tiko team claims to have fixed this problem with a nylon gearbox. I have to tell you, with the experience I have using these motors, a nylon gearbox really isn't that much of an improvement. The plastic in there is already some tough stuff, and it's really only treating a symptom, not the problem. Keep in mind, the people at M3D have replaced the gearbox in their 28BYJ-48 powered printer (the only other printer to ever reach the market with these motors, by the way) with a metal one, and they're still blowing out.

To compound this, the team at Tiko, in their infinite wisdom, have decided to create a "unibody" printer. Meaning the linear motion is handled by its plastic body. I really don't have to explain why this is a bad idea. Combining a plastic gearbox with a plastic motion system is just begging for trouble. Printers really do need metal, just because plastic wears away. The Tiko team boasts "we've tested our printers for days, so we know they're durable!" But that's... That's not impressive. Given the time that can be expected from a typical printer, having a few days under the belt isn't something that matters a whole lot. Plastic wears down. That's what it does. If steel can get smooth patches rubbed into it from use, imagine what can happen to even the toughest polycarbonate.

But enough about the longevity of the device, let's talk quality. See, the Tiko is brilliantly priced. The Tiko is priced right at the range for people to say "well yeah, the prints aren't great, but what can you expect from something this cheap?" From your flair, you have a Maker Select. You know for a fact that cost doesn't really scale linearly with quality in printing. That thing can easily outclass a lot of machines five times its cost. This is because printers are tools, not electronics. Sure, they've got electric guts, but so does a drill, and you know that with a pretty damn cheap drill you can still make a good enough hole. The Tiko relies on being classified as a consumer electronic. They want to be classed like a cheap laptop, or a cheap phone, where "yeah it's not great, but hey, for the price..." But, yeah, for the price, the Monoprice Mini can kick ass and take names with a skilled operator. That's another fun thing. Their ultra-closed down control system keeps would-be tinkerers and hackers from actually using these things to their full potential, and their use of a proprietary firmware combined with a proprietary design means repairing and extending this thing is next to impossible. You, with a Maker Select, know that the extensions the community comes up with are the best part. The things missing out of the box on a lot of printers are a huge pain to work with. Imagine not having the option to add those. This is, in essence, the Tiko. The king of "well, yeah, but it works."

About those missing things. No layer fan. No heated bed. 30mm/s max "safe" movement speed. A layer fan on a PLA only device is kind of the ultimate must-have. You need that shit to bridge worth a crap, or print anything small, which is also important on a printer with such a small bed! That bed, being unheated, means that while they say it can use other materials, it kinda can't. Yes, PETG can be printed without a heated bed, yes, a lot of materials can be, but it's in the same way that you can make a cross country road trip on nothing but a mountain bike and a massive stockpile of turkey jerky. You can, but dear god, don't. Lastly, that low mm/s. That's a product of that 15RPM those poor motors are capable of. Bridging with no layer fan is hard at twice that speed, but at such a low speed, you're looking at major sagging. As in, just, don't make things with gaps in them. They claimed something about their titanium nozzle compensating in some way for this, but that literally makes no sense, and I honestly felt personally insulted when I read that. This brings me to my next point...

The people running Tiko seem to think they're the smartest people in any room. In one of their AMAs, I asked them why they used a leveling system that puts extra strain on already overtaxed motors, and they compared themselves to Elon Musk for some reason. This is a group of people not used to being called out to actually explain what they're doing. Every question is met with buzzwords and the conversational equivalent of jazzhands. Seriously. take a look at their AMAs. The utter contempt they seem to express for the community they're trying to enter is astounding. With such choice, juicy lines as "Open source is great, but it's time to leave the nest," they really solidified their reputation. The best part is that, despite closing everything they could about their printer, they're using a delta design. Delta printers are the most open line of printers there are. Almost entirely a priori from the rest of the printing industry, delta printers were spawned when a bunch of hardware hackers looked at an industrial robot and said "hey I betcha we could make that thing barf plastic into Yoda heads." So Tiko took every bit of the last half decade of work that's gone into the Rostock and Kossel designs that they could manage, and decided that contributing back to the community was for chumps. Like all of us, they stand on the shoulders of giants, but unlike everyone else, they chose to piss in their hair.

Speaking of that behaviour, that brings me to their litigiousness. In their first AMA, they opened by bragging about the law firm they'd hired to pursue "false innovators" (ironic) for copying anything they'd created. They claimed they needed to jealously guard every idea they'd ever had, and that this was how they'd succeed. When informed by /u/jebba (the CEO of Aleph Objects, AKA the guys that make the fucking LulzBot) that this behaviour really wasn't helpful in the printing industry, they redoubled their efforts, contending that these were to protect their work producing products in China. When informed by several people in the manufacturing industry that, haha, no, it's cool if you want to patent stuff, but the Chinese do not give a single solitary shit about if you have a patent or not when they rip stuff off, they stopped replying. But again, this is them positioning themselves to look like electronics, instead of tools. To people outside the industry, the idea that you need to guard your ideas closely and keep your code internal is commonplace. It's just how it's done in a lot of tech. But in printing, the best machines are open, and even ones that cost as much as a decent used car use firmware with almost 100% community developed code, and open slicers. Home printers developed in a way wholly alien to the rest of the tech world of the last two decades, radiating out with community development like the old home computer clubs, and even further back with home radios hand soldered together on wooden cutting boards (fun fact: that's where the word "breadboard" came from. Early home radios made by hackers were made with cutting boards as backing. Neat right?). Not centrally developed, and given to a begging public. Printers are the ultimate Bazaar and any attempts to drag them into a Cathedral should be met with hostility.

Alright, I think I could go on for a few more paragraphs, but this seems a good stopping point. If anyone who's bought a Tiko is reading this, I want you to know I sincerely hope you enjoy your purchase. That's not sarcasm. Printing is fantastic, and whatever you use, I'm glad you're here. Everyone loves their first printer, regardless of what it is, and I'm sure you'll get some great stuff from it if you give it some work. However, that doesn't change what I think about the company that made your product.

That's kinda what happens when you buy a cheap clone. However, we can attempt some simple remedies to fix this. We're gonna go all the way from the nozzle to the motor.

First of all, the nozzle needs to be checked out. Is it clean? Does it look blown out in any way? If it is, it will look like the one on the left, and not the one on the right https://i.redd.it/ziz8dqwamvbx.jpg Best way to clean your nozzle is to blowtorch it. There's really no other option if you're printing PLA.

Ok, the nozzle is fine, let's check out the heatbreak and heatblock. Is it restricted in any way? Take the entire thing apart and try and move some filament through the heatbreak by hand. Is there any resistance at all? There might be, if you ran your extruder too hot with a cheap clone and the PTFE tube melted a little bit (since I bet its not all metal, even if they advertise it that way).

Ok, all that's fine, is the heatsink working? Does it actively feel cool to the touch when you heat up the nozzle? Is your fan for the heat sink actually on?

Hmm, ok that means nothing is really wrong with your hotend itself, there's extruder problems. Most commonly, that means you're just not getting enough torque. Make sure your bearing that is pressing the filament into the drive gear is TIGHT. You basically want it crushing the filament, but then back off some. However, clicking indicates that the grip is good, otherwise you would see stripping.

The reason your motor clicks is because there is too much backpressure in the nozzle and the extruder can't push plastic out even when its pushing as hard as it can go. Well, first thing to do is up the temps, really crank that shit up to like 230C, maybe 240C. That'll make sure the filament is getting melted really fast.

Still having issues after upping your temps? Try increasing your motor's voltage. This is basically last ditch effort. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bItYRMLGoVc Here's a handy video guide by the best 3d printing YouTuber. Do not up your voltage so much that the motor is hot to the touch, I have read that the heat of the motor can actually cause issues with the creation of the magnetic fields that causes motion and decrease your torque instead of increasing it due to the temperature.

Try different filaments, I know from experience that difference filaments create different back pressures and need longer times to melt down. So try some different filaments and slow down your print speed. The plastic needs time to melt! The more time you give it, the better off you'll be. 30mm/s is snail speed, but give it a shot for the sake of troubleshooting.

Check your bowden tube length. The shorter the better, if you can cut it shorter, do so. Also make sure the filament flows freely between it. You might've noticed a trend here, but the filament needs absolutely as little forces restricting movement as possible. You basically want it sliding on ice all the way up until it hits the brass in that nozzle to melt and be extruded.

Still having issues? Buy a big ass motor that puts out shitloads of torque. https://www.amazon.com/Stepper-Bipolar-4-lead-Connector-Printer/dp/B00PNEQKC0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1498240425&sr=8-2&keywords=nema17
That guy has 60NCm of torque, that's probably double if not 3x what you have now.

If after ALL of that, you're still seeing jamming, go buy a genuine E3D hotend, you'll thank yourself later.

I had a warped bed so I bought a borosilicate bed to fix it. The problem was now my y axis was missing steps due to the added weight. I tried turning down jerk and acceleration but even at setting jerk to 1 and acceleration to 200 it was still missing steps. I decided to upgrade the y axis motor which had 2 benefits. First, I have zero missed steps even at higher than stock acceleration. Second, the new motors are MUCH quieter. I went a head and upgraded the x axis with the same motor and now my printer is very quiet. At $13 each these motors are an awesome upgrade. You do need to splice some wires and as you can see I needed to clearance the bed x brace for the y axis motor to fit. But totally worth it.
Here are the motors I used:
STEPPERONLINE Nema 17 Stepper... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PNEQKC0?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I would use this stepper motor:
STEPPERONLINE Nema 17 Stepper Motor Bipolar 2A 59Ncm(84oz.in) 48mm Body 4-lead W/ 1m Cable and Connector compatible with 3D Printer/CNC https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PNEQKC0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_-9iTCb0Y9Z8Z1

It will easily be able to move a pair of scissors with enough strength and be able to do it quickly. This motor is extremely versatile and once you’re done with this project you’ll be able to use it for other cool projects as well. I’m using the DRV8825 motor control:
https://www.pololu.com/product/2132

I use these and they've been going strong for years in my D-bot: https://www.amazon.com/Stepper-Bipolar-4-lead-Connector-Printer/dp/B00PNEQKC0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1517499156&sr=8-3&keywords=nema+17

It's also worth noting that, all other things being equal, the number of starts increases the amount of torque required to hold a position (or raise or lower the load) proportionally. So if replacing your Z Axis motor, lean towards the higher torque NEMA 17s, like this guy:https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00PNEQKC0/. Measure for fit first, of course.

Guarantee the price will go up now😁


UK link:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PNEQKC0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_OKXUCbN6X8BV9

Already answered a similar comment with some questions so I'll just copy and paste them for you to make it easier.

Thanks for the recommendations. So I plan on buying these two items:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PNEQKC0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=AWQBCGWISS7BL&psc=1

But the guy above said I need a 24V supply. They seem to vary wildly and I have no clue what I need, like I said I'm very new and this kit is my only experience. Should I get this?

https://www.amazon.com/Excelity%C2%AE-Charger-Supply-Switching-Adapter/dp/B01GGAELKC/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=24v+power+supply+arduino&qid=1555342594&s=gateway&sr=8-5#customerReviews

or would something smaller like this work just as well?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072JM6SWT/ref=psdc_10967101_t1_B01GGAELKC#customerReviews

And lastly will I need to order any other parts or take anything else into consideration for this new stronger power supply?

The Long:
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I'm currently designing a core xy printer, the build specs for the machine are (LWH) 26"x26"x24" with a printing area 20"x20".

I'm stuck on designing the Z axis and would like to use two motors, I wanted to use a smoothie board for this project but this build requires 6 motors and thats where this issue starts. I'm aware that you can wire external stepper drivers but with all the talk about micro stepping I don't have the slightest clue on what I need If I were to go that route. I'm just really against spending that kind of money and having to hack it before I can use it.

I've seen people use pulley systems with one motor(how much torque do you need for that style application) and people using stubby stepper motors and wiring them together.

The heated bed is 18"x18" and I first designed a 20x20 aluminum build plate but started to wonder about warping and weight, I want to use glass as the actual printing area but designing the carriage is still on the drawing board.

The short:
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So here are my questions:

If I wanted to use a smoothie board what and where would I find the stepper drivers needed? Motors I would like to use.

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Why does it seem the standard of Z rod is 8mm? I remember reading somewhere that it has to do with the millimeter per degree of turn?

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If I wanted to use 10-12mm z rod is there any cons to doing that other then overkill?

Here's an album of the design progress for those interested. The frame is designed around 20x60mm v-slot from open builds.

Nema 17 Stepper Motor Bipolar 2A 59Ncm(84oz.in) 48mm Body 4-lead W/ 1m Cable and Connector for 3D Printer/CNC https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PNEQKC0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_JNFbzbHZY4JMB

Are these usually listed? Looking at a few on amazon, they don't give a maximum rpm. An example

I just added yesterday a glass bed and boy, that bed falling is annoying. Would that stepper motor be a proper upgrade? I've tried to find that 17HS4401, just to find this one that have more torque and isn't that more expensive.