(Part 3) Top products from r/WorldOfWarships

Boyo? Hahaha I'm being trolled by an 1890 Top Hat dude with a handlebar moustache. Sing us a Barbershop song, Sport!

Anyhooo....

AoN was invented in the US with the Standard class of BB's. AoN does not mean that the bow and stern of the ship had no armored bulkheads, as you said here:

>She had an All or Nothing scheme, which means the bow had little if any armor.

On American BBs, the forward and aft bulkhead were generally of the thickness of the armor belt, hence... wait for it... "All or Nothing"

All or Nothing means you do not add 'medium' armor thickness as on a Japanese Fuso or RN Queen Elizabeth or US New York Class. You either have the maximum thickness of plate practical, or no armor at all. All. or. Nothing.

Typical American Standard BBs included a 13.5" armor belt, and a forward and aft bulkhead of 13.5". In most cases, this armor was tapered from the belt/deck armor end to meet the barbette, which, again, had about 13.5" of armor.

This rule was violated in the US with the intallation of I believe a 15" forward plate in USS Wisconson. Other Iowa class BB's had a typical 12.2" forward bulkhead.

So the Richeleau had a thinner forward bulkhead, but by not means is it 'little' armor, and in being not the same thickness as the belt, actually deviates from the All or Nothing scheme.

U.S. Battleships: An Illustrated Design History Friedman Hardcover

[Battleships: Allied Battleships in World War II 1st Edition Robert O. Dulin Jr., William H. Garzke Jr. ] (https://www.amazon.com/Battleships-Allied-World-War-II/dp/0870211005)

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but you have some reading to do.

Do not take your cues on BB design from World of Warships. It's a game. In fact, true AoN armor schemes are nearly impenetrable from the bow, including the Iowa, Montana, and Yamato class ships. In fact, due to the great deal of STS armor plate included in the two final US classes designed, it would be nearly impossible for a Yamato to penetrate several layers of 1/2", 1-1/2", and 1" STS armor plate, at an angle, and not be disturbed to maintain enough APC integrity to pierce the forward bulkhead. This causes some frustration for those of us who have studied the relevant history of American BBs, and the relative weakness of most IJN APC rounds, but then, it's just a game.

Have a good day!

Edit: I'd like to add, the STS 'armor plate' used in the construction of the Iowa class ships does not include stringers or support beams. All other ships, including other US ships besides the Iowa and Montana classes, used marine-grade steel for decks and bulkheads. In those two classes, decks and bulkheads are often made of STS, or Special Treatment Steel, 118,500 psi tensile. It's essentially Class B armor. So while the Yamato was constructed of mild steel, and had armor plates, the Iowa and Montana classes are actually made out of armor plate. By comparison, modern American warships, as good a standard as any, are constructed of HY80, or steel with 80,000 psi tensile. Of course, modern steel is more consistent and more importantly, has a greater 'give to yield' envelope than STS made in the 1930s. Still, the lavish use of STS in Iowa and Montana class plans and construction means these ships are incredibly stout, much more so than Wikipedia armor statistics can convey. In short, WoW is an arcade game, and the final two classes of American BBs are the finest possible way to construct a Battleship, regardless of fire-control or damage control practice or any other oft-mentioned US superiority. The fabric of the ships themselves is vastly superior to any other BB ever constructed or conceived. They are literally Superweapons.

I probably started collecting these around 2000, when I was still a kid. The ones from Osprey are pretty nice and widely available on amazon. The Squadron/Signal's are more difficult to find these days, but your local hobby shop might carry them.

A particular favorite on mine is the one on the top right, as my thesis professor in college wrote it when he was a grad student at Yale. He was pretty surprised when I brought it in during office hours to have it signed. Apparently it hasn't been in print since the 80's.

I can post links to any of them, should any of you be interested in picking up some for yourself, not all of them are in print still though.

Definitely. Polish effort towards intelligence with regard to the Enigma cipher is also important through that time period. I read a lot of history and found myself fascinated with the Poles; a good place to start is Zamoyski's work although they are at least tangentially related in other histories like The Enemy at the Gate - who doesn't love Sobieski vodka? In any case, the Blyskawica ("lightning" - be sure to look up its proper pronounciation) was my very first premium purchase, of which I am proud, even though I have little to no Polish blood. Their history of Catholicism also made them a fun choice in everything from Medieval: Total War II to the Europa Universalis series...but of course that's a far cry from piloting a destroyer. (although true enough, they are a rather tough country to play in Hearts of Iron)

When town hall is open for two hours and every department locks their doors during that period you learn to love American bureaucracy. :-)

It's a leeeeetle dated however was funny to me back in the day. https://www.amazon.com/Ciao-America-Italian-Discovers-U-S/dp/0767912365

This one was my first naval book. There wasn't enough writing covering each battleship but it had a great selection of photos.

You'd really enjoy Ghost Fleet then.

the story of how the russian baltic fleet got to Tsushima is outrageous for those who dont know it. The Tsars Last Armada is a pretty good read of all the things that happened leading up to the battle and the aftermath (a bit skimpy on the battle itself though). The author is a bit (read a lot) bias against the Tsar and his court but thats to be expected. Not an expensive book if you like naval history ...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tsars-Last-Armada-Pleshakov/dp/0465057926

from the Robert D. Ballard book on the finding the bismark, the swastika had been painted over after launch, and was visible b/c the top layer of paint had been eaten/weathered away. Ballard's Book

Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships: 1906-1921, page 224 (1984 edition).

Lifted the reference from here: Number 13-class battleship

EDIT: Also, sure, that's a lot of money, but consider that they made less money back then.

Do you have Roscoe's United States Destroyer operations of WW2?

https://www.amazon.com/United-States-Destroyer-Operations-World/dp/0870217267

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Next-Generation-Technical/dp/0671704273

Are detailed schematics from a fictional ship also fiction? I'm confused now....

"Unrelated" is a very grey area here. It's something that was considered in the design process and the idea was ultimately scrapped because France and Italy went for 15" guns. The ship itself would probably have looked very similar to the eventual Bismarck. Source: https://www.amazon.de/Battleships-Axis-Neutral-World-War/dp/0870211013 (Fucking hell it has become expensive)

The difference to pre-eliminary KGV designs which ultimately weren't chosen, like 15C, really isn't that big. Both are pre-eliminary designs. Both are NOT Bismarck or KGV, albeit being related to them.

I would perform some dark arts to get a movie centered on the USS Juneau that started just before the naval battle at Guadalcanal, spent some confused time on the night action itself, and then the latter 2/3 of the movie on the sinking and survival disaster afterwards. I read a book on it (IIRC by one of the survivors, or sourced from several) when I was in middle school in the late '90s. It was morbidly fascinating and tragic.

They could even use Paul Allen's footage of the wreck during the end credits...

Edit - this is the book. It even has a movie-ready title.

No, you're incorrect. The design process, including the ships the Iowa Class was designed to counter, is all laid out in this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Iowa-Class-Battleships-Weapons-Equipment/dp/0870212982
The Kongo Class, being 30 knot capable, were troublesome for planners during US Naval War College exercises in the 30's because they were at least 9 knots faster than any US battleship. The Nagato twins were also problematic because they were capable of running 5 knots faster than the Colorado class.
You're incorrect in your belief that "all" US BB's after Colorado were designed as floating AA batteries for carrier screening and shore bombardment.
Iowa was ordered before the war in europe even started (July 1939) and was laid down in June 1940, before the attack on Pearl Harbor. You're trying to tell me the Iowa Class was designed to protect carriers and shore bombardment, for a war the US wasn't even in yet, for a type of combat that wasn't expected, and for a class of ships that didn't yet exist? (Essex, laid down in April 1941).

If you're so inclined I can list exhaustive references later and utterly eviscerate your point.

By the way, nice ad hominem attack, it really enhances your argument and makes you seem extremely in command of your facts and presentation.

This kind of stuff certainly happened during the war: https://books.google.com.my/books?id=yep6BwAAQBAJ&pg=PT27&lpg=PT27&dq=Lexington+torpedo+damage+control+officer&source=bl&ots=zqBjB2VXna&sig=WB95Uefplm5EaABJL2pAL-u7Qpo&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Lexington%20torpedo%20damage%20control%20officer&f=false

"The crew of the battered Lexington worked fast and skillfully, and before long she was steaming at 25 kts and taking planes aboard. The damage control officer reported to Captain Sherman, 'We've got the torpedo damage temporarily shored up, the fires out, and soon will have the ship back on an even keel. But I would suggest, sir, that if you have to take any more torpedoes, you take 'em on the starboard side."

Within one hour, the Lexington would suffer an avgas explosion and have to be abandoned.

It's normal in war, especially after a serious situation. No use screaming on the radio "SHIT, SHIT, WE TOOK A TORPEDO" If the ship can still continue sailing, it does no harm to send that kind of message to let people know you're fine and ready to fight.

That particular story of Nelson comes from this book: https://www.amazon.com/Battleship-Nelson-Story-H-M/dp/0853687269

If you have evidence otherwise, you are more than welcome to present it.