(Part 3) Best books about personality disorders according to redditors

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You might also find these useful:

Cognitive Therapy of Personality Disorders, Third Edition / pdf

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Handbook of Diagnosis and Treatment of DSM-5 Personality Disorders: Assessment, Case Conceptualization, and Treatment, Third Edition / pdf

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Cognitive Behavior Therapy of DSM-IV-TR Personality Disorders: Highly Effective Interventions for the Most Common Personality Disorders, Second Edition / pdf

[Patient or Pretender: Inside the Strange World of Factitious Disorders] (https://www.amazon.com/Patient-Pretender-Strange-Factitious-Disorders/dp/0471580805)

[Dying To Be Ill] (https://www.amazon.com/Dying-be-Ill-Marc-Feldman/dp/1138063835/)

[Playing Sick?: Untangling the Web of Munchausen Syndrome, Munchausen by Proxy, Malingering, and Factitious Disorder] (https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/862305)

I haven't read the book yet, but it's been recommended to me a few times. "Bad Men Do What Good Men Dream" is about how we all have these dark thoughts, and what separates good and bad is whether you act on it.

http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Men-What-Good-Dream/dp/0880486880

Might I recommend this book! Its called Jekyll on Trial: Multiple Personality and Criminal Law by Elyn Saks

https://www.amazon.com/Jekyll-Trial-Multiple-Personality-Disorder/dp/0814797644/ref=mp_s_a_1_1/144-8101392-0225552?ie=UTF8&qid=1542156254&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=saks+multiple+personality&dpPl=1&dpID=5125x7XRVEL&ref=plSrch

Its thick but fascinating. Elyn Saks is a renowned individual who has studied DID and law a great deal. She also wrote The Center Cannot Hold, which is her personal story of her life with schizophrenia. Its rough but its so hopeful. She's very well educated and inspiring.

If I recall correctly, I read on a book that they tested Mescaline and LSD in conjunction with therapy, for BPD but the study didn't show any improvement on therapy, or even worsened the symptoms.

If her father has schizophrenia, which is a genetic disorder, psychedelics and other similar drugs such as MDMA, and even cannabis should be completely out of question. Anyway, mind that drugs didn't make her father become a schizophrenic, it only triggered latent schizophrenia - he would probably become one sooner or later.

Personally, I've experienced a great deal of personal growth with psychedelics (LSD, 25i-NBOMe, 25c-NBOMe, DMT, 2C-E, 2C-B) and MDMA. In the long run, it had a positive effect on my BPD because it allowed me to learn a lot about emotions, perceptions, meditation and to accept myself for who I am; I'm much calmer now. In the short run, it took me about 6 months to integrate all the experiences, there were days that I couldn't think about anything else besides suicide and I also experienced strong dissociation, depersonalization and derealization. I don't use them anymore.

Going back to your SO, psychedelics aren't for her. I assume she will get the same (or better) positive effects with meditation, it will only take some more effort, but the effects can be quite similar. Yesterday, for the first time, I experienced a bit of ego death with meditation, which is what you get on the peak of a strong psychedelic experience. It was amazing!

Anyway, if you want I can search for the paragraph about the study I told you about tomorrow.

Edit: found the excerpt. It is from this book, and I have it in PDF if you want.

Hey there!

One of the things that really helped me with my BPD when it is at its peek is reading about mindfulness and breathing exercises. It doesnt really apply tp specific symptoms but it is generally good advice for people who become overwhelmed by emotions.

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Aside from that, here are two books that help with exploration of BPD and a good workbook for a type of therapy that is used to treat BPD symptoms.

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https://www.amazon.com/Rough-Diamonds-Borderline-Personality-Disorder/dp/1500868957

https://www.pdfdrive.com/the-dialectical-behavior-therapy-skills-workbook-e19134904.html

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Hope this helps :)

Caveat: I am neither a Zen adept nor a psychotherapist.

Perhaps this may shed some light:

" THE EXISTENTIAL SHIFT

The objective of all this work with the narcissistic style or borderline narcissist is to stop the frantic pursuit of the self in activity and accomplishment and shift to that moment when one experiences the reality of one's existence in the present. That moment is the entry to the real self. A good therapist, seasoned by experience or blessed with intuition, seizes that moment to touch the patient at his core. Through recognition, empathy, or the sharing of the despair or simple beauty that emerges then, the therapist reinforces reality with human connection. By repeating this process again and again, the therapist helps the patient acquire a taste for and strengthen the natural propensity for attuned relationship. When that attunement is achieved in the moment, the false self has been demobilized..."

-from Ch. IV, Treatment of the False Self, in Humanizing the Narcissistic Style by Stephen M. Johnson, Ph.D., W.W. Norton, 1987

Well, now.

>stop the frantic pursuit of the self in activity and accomplishment and shift to that moment when one experiences the reality of one's existence in the present

Hm. Just so:

Is dharma combat (killing the Buddha) different from 'stop the frantic pursuit of the self' ?

>Zen itself is sort of a path for people who are more self-oriented to begin with

in the case of a narcissist, maybe that's because they are sick of themselves and they hope this Zen poison, if they drink it, will kill something they wish to be rid of. But they cannot take the step because then they fear they will be left with nothing. The narcissist has been staving off annihilation (the admission that they are hollow) their entire life. It's what drives the frantic, half-unconscious hostility against anyone who threatens true human contact. Truly, the narcissist confronting the Dharma is like a dog staring at a vat of boiling fat: it cannot eat, but it cannot walk away.

A MODEST PROPOSAL

What if OP is in a karmic circumstance which has led him to investigate Zen ?

What if OP is uniquely situated to strike his colleague with a board, point at the moon, or shout! in

>that moment when one experiences the reality of one's existence in the present. That moment is the entry to the real self

In my understanding, a narcissist constructs a false self to paper over the hole where his real self should be, and any threat to the false self, any possibility of unmasking the void will potentially expose the narcissist as being hollow, a shell of a human being with no center... that way lies madness - to be conscious of not having lost one's mind, but never having had one at all. Annihilation.

So... if Zen will free us from the monkey mind, is it possible for a narcissist to simply leapfrog over the intermediate therapeutic step of building a healthy ego (which is left behind in enlightenment anyway) and move straight from abandoning the monkey mind to the True Self ? We who practice Zen on the scaffold of an intact ego, can return to that scaffold when we are not sitting. What if the NPD is the same: something to be abandoned when a better option comes along?

I would be very interested to hear if anyone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder has ever caught a glimpse of their True Nature in sesshin, koan work, zazen, listening to teisho, etc. Has any poor wretch like that ever achieved a measure of peace and confidence from realizing that the struggle to avoid the emptiness behind their persona is simply beside the point ? What if enlightenment will relieve the existential dread and cause the NPD to drop off when the mind drops off?

What if the real leverage in this situation is for OP (appealing to the narcissist's need for admiration and perceived authority) to become his Zen student? What if, in teaching the OP, answering OP's exquisitely pointed questions about the Dharma, the narcissist will be forced to dig in - straight to the heart of Zen ?

What then ?


Admittedly, this is somewhat manipulative, Machiavellian, underhanded, tricky, etc., etc. That's why I like it so well. I guarantee it has an approximately 50/50 chance of success. It also will provide OP with at the very least, an amusing hobby when they pass in the hall, and give OP agency and self-efficacy which is often hard to come by when dealing with assholes in the workplace. If OP is sitting back, watching the narcissist wrestle with himself, pulling puppet strings with sly, plausibly innocent questions, and jerking the chain with cognitive dissonance, OP's not going to feel like he's a target anymore.

OP, what if you just sit back and let the dog make the decision about the boiling fat? Is it really your problem?

Have any of you considered the possibility that Trump likely has (BPD) in addition to antisocial and narcissistic personality disorders? A person can have more than one personality disorder if they meet the criteria for each. I compare Trump’s actions and statements to the 9 official criteria for BPD at https://trumpsbrain.net/trump-criteria/ and in my book “Faultfinders: The Impact of Borderline Personality Disorder.” Trump apparently meets 8 of the criteria when only 5 are required for a diagnosis. The one he doesn’t seem to have is self-mutilation/suicide attempts.

The much more descriptive name for this mental illness is EMOTIONALLY UNSTABLE PERSONALITY DISORDER which is the term used by the World Health Organization. Does that name make you think of Donald Trump?

Once you’re done with reading Kernberg and the work by his contemporaries at NYP/Weil Cornell PDI. I would suggest this https://www.amazon.com/Betweenity-Discussion-Concept-Borderline-Psychoanalysis/dp/0415543894 to have an overarching critique. One of the authors critiqued Judith for being a feminist trauma PTSD victimizer or something to that nature of slight derogatory sense.

As you can see there are many schools of thoughts. Clinicians who are at the bottom -rung of the Ivory Tower food chain will probably be more simplistic in their referencing inconclusive overlapping DSM-5 diagnoses. Who then may pander in-/under-effective generalist psychotherapies.

McLean does lecture to the local public that you should to find a specialist psychotherapist for BPD and that generalist will not really do.

I like Masterson- http://www.amazon.com/The-Narcissistic-Borderline-Disorders-Developmental/dp/0876302924

and Young- http://www.amazon.com/Schema-Therapy-Practitioners-Jeffrey-Young/dp/1593853726/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382230277&sr=1-1&keywords=young+schema+therapy

but dont really care for the new DSM, which didnt make many differences about personality disorders...

as for clinical treatment, NPD has an unwillingness to have any sort of vulnerability of the self (and thus requires ego strokes, or associates with perceived esteem, or flies into a rage when vulnerability is perceived)

BPD, has no stable sense of self, and thus can be openly vulnerable or incredibly resistant depending on internal/external cues- their sense of self is incredibly context driven, and thus rage can occur when the environment is providing some form of perceived invalidation (such as telling them they shouldn't feel a certain way...)

Hi Fried, I don't agree that what gets labeled schizophrenia is a "disorder" - that's a value judgment about how people respond to adverse experiences, psychological and biological.

Also do not agree that these problems have a biological origin (if by origin one means cause); that has never been confirmed. What I believe is that there are biological and epigenetic correlates to extreme distress as the person and environment interact.

Lastly, there been many, many accounts of full recovery from a diagnosis of schizophrenia; I thought that issue was already resolved and am always sincerely surprised when people say they think schizophrenia is incurable. I'll paste in here my list of reading of intensive psychotherapeutic approaches to schizophrenia, starting from decades ago and going up till the present, which contains a few hundred cases with many stories of "cure"; I think if people were more familiar with this work they'd be a lot more optimistic:


Wilhelm Reich (1945) – Character Analysis, 3rd Edition

http://www.amazon.com/Character-Analysis-Wilhelm-Reich/dp/0374509808/

Paul Federn (1952) – Ego Psychology and the Psychoses

http://www.amazon.com/psychology-psychoses-basic-classics-psychiatry/dp/B0007DODH6/

Freida-Fromm Reichmann (1960) – Principles of Intensive Psychotherapy

http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Intensive-Psychotherapy-Phoenix-Books/dp/0226265994/

Bryce Boyer and Peter Giovacchini (1967)– Psychoanalytic Treatment of Characterological and Schizophrenic Disorders

http://www.amazon.com/Psychoanalytic-treatment-schizophrenic-characterological-disorders/dp/B0006BOYG4/

Harold Searles (1968) – Schizophrenia and Related Subjects –

http://www.amazon.com/Collected-Schizophrenia-Related-Subjects-Maresfield/dp/0946439303/

Elvin Semrad (1969) – Teaching Psychotherapy of Psychotic Patients; Supervision of Beginning Residents in the “Clinical Approach”.

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotherapy-Psychotic-Supervision-Beginning-Residents/dp/080890423X/

Bryce Boyer, ed. (1973) - Master Clinicians on Treating the Regressed Patient Volume 1

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Clinicians-Treating-Regressed-Patient/dp/0876688342

Silvano Arieti (1974) – Interpretation of Schizophrenia, 2nd Edition

http://www.amazon.com/Interpretation-Schizophrenia-Silvano-Arieti/dp/0465034292/

Vamik Volkan (1976) – Primitive Internalized Object Relations: A Clinical Study of Borderline, Narcissistic, and Schizophrenic Patients

http://www.amazon.com/Primitive-Internalized-Object-Relations-Schizophrenic/dp/0823649954/

Bertram Karon and Gary VandenBos (1977) – Psychotherapy of Schizophrenia: The Treatment of Choice

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotherapy-Schizophrenia-The-Treatment-Choice-ebook/dp/B00C1OKHWO/

Bryce Boyer, ed. (1977) - Master Clinicians on Treating the Regressed Patient Volume 2

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Clinicians-Treating-Regressed-Patient/dp/1568210043

Gaetano Benedetti (1977) – Psychotherapy of Schizophrenia

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotherapy-Schizophrenia-Master-Work/dp/1568217560/

Harold Searles (1979) – The Nonhuman Environment in Normal Development and in Schizophrenia

http://www.amazon.com/Nonhuman-Environment-Normal-Development-Schizophrenia/dp/B007BNLLNE/

Harold Searles (1979) – Countertransference and Related Subjects

http://www.amazon.com/Countertransference-Related-Subjects-Selected-Papers/dp/0823610853

Ping-Nie Pao (1979) – Schizophrenic Disorders: Theory and Treatment from a Psychodynamic Point of View

http://www.amazon.com/Schizophrenic-Disorders-Theory-Treatment-Psychodynamic/dp/0823659909/

Donald Rinsley (1980) – Treatment of the Severely Disturbed Adolescent

http://www.amazon.com/Treatment-Severely-Disturbed-Adolescent-Rinsley/dp/1568212224/

Bryce Boyer (1983) – The Regressed Patient

http://www.amazon.com/Regressed-Patient-Bryce-L-Boyer/dp/0876686269/

Herbert Rosenfeld (1985) – Psychotic States: A Psychoanalytical Approach

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotic-States-Psychoanalytic-Approach-Maresfield/dp/0950714682/

Herbert Rosenfeld (1987) – Impasse and Interpretation: Therapeutic and Anti-Therapeutic Factors in the Psychoanalytic Treatment of Psychotic, Borderline, and Neurotic Patients

http://www.amazon.com/Impasse-Interpretation-Anti-Therapeutic-Psychoanalytic-Psychoanalysis/dp/0415010128/

Bent Rosenbaum (1988) – The Language of Psychosis

http://www.amazon.com/Language-Psychosis-Bent-Rosenbaum/dp/0814774032

Thomas Ogden (1988) – The Primitive Edge of Experience

http://www.amazon.com/Primitive-Edge-Experience-Thomas-Ogden-ebook/dp/B001XCVU4E/

Edward Podvoll (1991) – The Seduction of Madness: Revolutionary Insights into the World of Psychosis and a Compassionate Approach to Recovery at Home

http://www.amazon.com/Seduction-Madness-Revolutionary-Psychosis-Compassionate/dp/0060921188/

David Rosenfeld (1992) – The Psychotic Aspects of the Personality

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotic-Aspects-Personality-David-Rosenfeld-ebook/dp/B005NYS2C6/

Gaetano Benedetti and Pier-Maria Furlan (1993) – Psychotherapy of Schizophrenia: Effective Clinical Approaches – Controversies, Critiques and Recommendations

http://www.amazon.com/Psychotherapy-Schizophrenia-Effective-Approaches-Controversies-Recommendations/dp/088937077X/

Michael Robbins (1993) – Experiences of Schizophrenia: An Integration of the Personal, Scientific, and Therapeutic

http://www.amazon.com/Experiences-Schizophrenia-Integration-Scientific-Therapeutic/dp/0898629977/

Honestly, there are a number of psych disorders in which the patient probably won't care what others think of them. Many sociopathic illnesses are this way, but I don't think just because you have a lack of social awareness or that you don't care what others think of you means you have an illness.

I don't enough about it all to go into great detail, but you can pick up a copy of this book for some more info on personality disorders.

I finally realized the ideal book. It's Another Chance to be Real - I would recommend buying the hardcover, because you'll timelessly cherish it for decades to come. Google Books may have more to preview than Amazon however.

Thanks for that thoughtful reply!

I love how your first paragraph demonstrates exactly the kind of response that would "catch narcissists like honey": Open flattery ("Wow. You about nailed me perfectly.") followed by insight of your own demonstrating that you are a worthy subordinate. Where do you live; I want you in my life! ;)

> Was there some part of you that wanted to change, or was it really all pressure from your boyfriend? The standard wisdom about change these days seems to be that you can't influence anyone else to change if they're not already doing it for themselves.

The literature (e.g. Cognitive Therapy of Personality Disorders, Overcoming Resistant Personality Disorders, Identifying and Understanding the Narcissistic Personality, etc.) says that narcissists will deny that anything is wrong with us and aggressively resist changing until we have either dug ourselves into a hole too deep for us to get out of (which induces narcissistic depression) or a valued partner threatens to leave if we do not change. These are the two reasons narcissists may decide to enter therapy.

In therapy we are challenging patients, and we frequently terminate therapy before any progress has been made. However, if our defenses do get broken down, from that point on we are more open to "reconstruction" than e.g. avoidant patients. Once we learn to be vulnerable and have the experience that just because we are flawed it does not mean that we are absolutely worthless, we are tremendously relieved (narcissists carry quite a burden, you know) and then we start to realize how increased self-awareness benefits us. From that point on we start to be more self-motivated and cooperative.

In my case it took more than a year from the time my SO first started to take issue with my behavior to when I first made an appointment with a therapist. The first one was awful and I never went back, but I had 13 sessions with the second one I found. She helped me realize just how unaware I was of my emotions, which was eye-opening, but eventually I manipulated her into thinking my problems were caused by my SO. When I realized what had happened, I abruptly terminated therapy. Then I tried two more therapists neither of whom understood me, I felt, and for a while I gave up on therapy, thinking I was too complex for anyone to be able to help me. However, I became desperate to learn to be good enough to my SO that he wouldn't leave me, so eventually I wormed my way into a treatment program for personality disorders. There I finally I got a therapist who knew how to see through me and handle me. She was closer in age to my mother than to me and it was incredibly effective to have her behave toward me the way a good mother would have done - affectionately helping me to identify and cope with my own emotions and also getting appropriately angry with me when I made her feel bad. It was like getting a second chance at being raised right.

Aaaaanyway, my point is that it took A LOT of time, tears and therapy (and also meditation) before my defenses were broken down and a humbler, more secure and more empathic self was nurtured. I've been incredibly lucky in how my SO has simultaneously pushed and supported me and also in the chemistry I had with my last therapist, and no way in hell I would've come this far without all that help. The odds of other narcissists being that lucky are not good.

I don't kid myself that I'm "cured". I think I will always feel irrationally entitled. In particular I struggle with the self-discipline to work hard and carry my own weight, because I can't seem to shake the notion that things ought to be easy for me. When my SO and I argue these days, it is usually either because I have not completed a task that we had agreed I should do (we work together part-time on our own business) or because he feels I am insufficiently empathetic with him/not making enough of an effort to be there for him emotionally - and I have to agree that I don't push myself as hard as I should. My life circumstances are currently good enough that I don't have to struggle too much, but I intend to remain childless because I do not think I have it in me to sacrifice my own needs. (My SO does not want children either so we're on the same page.) But I do feel like a changed person with a genuine humility and a sense of conscience that I did not have before. I don't look down on others the way I used to and I don't exploit others even when I can get away with it because now that I actually look myself in the mirror, metaphorically speaking, I want to be able to respect myself.

On that note, I probably should get back to the work I'm currently procrastinating on........ ;)

Edit: Forgot to ask what you think the payoff is for you in hanging out with narcissists? You seem aware of how it's bad for you, but there must be something you get out of it. You mention that you feel cool for being the only one to understand them and also that you tend to blend into the scenery. Do narcissists recognize something in you that others don't, or what do you think is the attraction for you?

There is not a lot of reading on it, because there hasn't been much (if any) research on these specific descriptions. This could be because of the historic difficulty we've had in adequately and accurately measuring narcissism, and with some of the flaws that the DSM has in its description of NPD.

In terms of "sub-types" of NPD, the closest things that the literature has to offer right now deals with the construct of narcissism itself, rather than the personality disorder. (Whether or not they are actually sub-types or just seemingly paradoxical traits is debatable). I suggest looking into Overt/Covert or Grandiose/Vulnerable narcissism (they are the same thing, just different titles). These seem to be somewhat similar, at least in name, to the fanatic and paranoid sub-types that you mention. I recommend research articles over books, as there is a peer review process to help ensure that quality material is published, but If interested in NPD and looking for a book, this one is written by a couple of current researchers. I haven't read the book yet, but the editors (Campbell and Miller) are respected in the field.

Good luck! I'm glad to see others interested in this area.

I'm sure that you could trace many if not all of my questions back to books. And I do have quite a few that are relevant to this. Just trying to triangulate :)

Your style is different from the typical ASP AMA. And not quite the same as the personality in Investigative and Forensic Interviewing: A Personality-focused Approach, for example. That's why I'm so interested! You did note 'high functioning'.

Oh yeah, have people noticed that the way you laugh is stolen from someone else?

Recently caught up on TV Dexter. To me it seems so carefully calibrated to not offend viewers (and of course not glorify psychopaths). I bet portraying Dexter himself as an accurate organized 'missionary'/ideology-motivated psychopathic serial killer would scare the bejesus out of people. Plus, when they do portray psychopaths, they're so flamingly blatant about it (eg. Hannah McKay's father), so I'm inclined to believe the inaccuracies are intentional.

I mean, what story would there be to explore in a TV show following the life of the Terminator from Terminator I? Now, somebody close to the fire like Saul Goodman from Breaking Bad, that would be fun.

One other one I forgot to ask was: does danger, people panicking make you feel calmer, in control, even greedy? Does calmness make you antsy? Do you need a certain level of shit going down to feel OK?

Yeah, I'm completely out of questions. Cheers, Modern_Psycho!