(Part 2) Best catholic books according to redditors
We found 4,272 Reddit comments discussing the best catholic books. We ranked the 1,434 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the products ranked 21-40. You can also go back to the previous section.
![Story of a Soul: The Autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux (the Little Flower) [The Authorized English Translation of Therese's Original Unaltered Manuscripts]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51TqWaQ33hL.jpg)
Catholic teaching on "turning the other cheek" is not in the literal sense.
In Jesus's time, a person would never have used their left hand for any form of social interaction (considered 'unclean'). So, if someone strikes you on the right cheek, he's hitting you with the back of his left hand. This was the manner in which one would strike a slave or a social inferior.
So, in the face of violence Jesus is recommending:
neither fighting back nor fleeing, but rather standing one's ground.
So to turn the other cheek is to prevent them from backhanding you again. Humiliating you again. Treating you like an inferior. It's to signal that you refuse to to take shit from the aggressor while showing him that you are occupying a different moral space.
Edit: Sorry for going all theology one you, I know it's just a joke but the Catholic in me couldn't help it :/
EDIT: Sauce for the doubters... .
The Path of Nonviolence - Catholic Church (4 pages)
The Source is Catholicism by Fr. Robert Barron(doctorate in theology)
>"Holy Scripture must be understood in the light of what Christ and the saints have actually practiced. Christ did not offer His other cheek, nor Paul either. Thus to interpret the injunction of the Sermon on the Mount literally is to misunderstand it. This injunction signifies rather the readiness of the soul to bear, if it be necessary, such things and worse, without bitterness against the attacker. This readiness our Lord showed, when He gave up His body to be crucified. That response of the Lord was useful, therefore, for our instruction." (In John 18, lect. 4, 2)
> I have no idea if this post contains anything insulting/against the rules/breaking some secret taboo. I just want to become closer to the family of the man I love.
This last sentence just made me smile so big today. We're a pretty thick skinned bunch, and hearing that you want to come into this with an open heart and mind, prompted by a man and family whom you love, is an occasion for joy. Welcome! We're happy to have you here. Please stick around and ask as many questions as you wish!
I want to make this offer at the beginning of this post, so it doesn't get buried. As you embark upon this journey, please feel free to keep my username handy and DM with any specific questions that trip you up or pique your curiosity. I mean that, I'm happy to be a resource in addition to all the wonderful folks who help this subreddit tick.
I'm a cradle Catholic, 28 years old, and I, too, feel like there's an eternity's worth of stuff to discover about the faith. It's always overwhelming.
I'm going to first echo /u/Trubea's sentiments, Catholicism For Dummies is an excellent resource book and worth picking up.
Given that your SO has been sharing lots of biblical stories with you it would also make sense to buy a Bible. I'd recommend the following for a very readable Bible with awesome footnotes, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church as a teaching companion to reference against. It may take time to dig really deeply into those, but eventually you'll want them.
Two YouTube channels (finally I'm recommending something free, right?) where you'll find great short videos on what the Church teaches, pop culture, and everything in between are found here:
Also, I've noticed you seem to be drawn to the "beauty" of the faith. The aforementioned Bishop Barron has some great media that I think you'd really enjoy.
Before I recommend too many more options that break the bank, I'll leave you with that. :) There are lots of free resources to learn about the Catholic Church online, as well. The teachings, the stories, the lives of the saints, the miracles, you name it! Just let us know what is piquing your interest the most, and we'll do our best to direct you to something awesome on it.
In the present, will say a prayer for your journey. Peace to you!
There is also another layer to this, which is the denial of the Pauline letters and the synoptic Gospels as reliable sources do to their mentions of miracle workings, as well as the question as to why Jesus would not have been more famous had such signs of divinity truly been present.
The reality is that miracle workings were not an anomaly at the time. There were many miracle workers and magicians in the time of Jesus^1 and miracle workings were not a sign of divinity.^2 Josephus mentions several miracle workers in his works^3 and in the gospels themselves other miracle workers are presented.^4
---
Footnotes:
|^1 Sanders, E. The Historical Figure of Jesus (p. 135-143). Penguin UK. Kindle Edition.
|^2 Sanders, E. (p. 157-168).
|^3 Flavius Josephus, William Whiston, trans. (1895). Antiquities of the Jews, (Auburn: John E. Beardsley, 1895), XIV, II, 1
|^4 Mark 6:7 & parr.⌂, Matt 12:27⌂
---
Further Readings:
The Historical Figure of Jesus by E. P. Sanders
> I want to start going again, but dealing with his anti Catholicism and New Atheist Facebook posts, etc as a practicing Catholic just sounds emotionally exhausting. Plus I'd have to attend church alone with our toddler, who tries to make a break for the altar every time she's set loose.
Going to mass without your husband is better than not going at all. Moreover, other people should not inhibit your ability to practice the Faith. Concerning the New Atheist Facebook posts, if your husband finds that kind of material even remotely convincing, I would recommend he read Edward Feser's The Last Superstition: A Refutation of the New Atheism.
> Then I start wondering what the point even is because she will probably just end up being an atheist because of his example.
Set a better example than your husband and make an effort to show your child that there are good reasons to be a Catholic. Read and study apologetic books like William Lane Craig's On Guard and/or Trent Horn's Why We're Catholic: Our Reasons for Faith, Hope, and Love so that you are better equipped to defend the Faith. When your daughter is old enough, she can read these books and other apologetics books for herself. Also, it wouldn't be a bad idea for your husband to read these same books. Although, William Lane Craig's On Guard for Students was written specifically for non-Christians; so it might be a better option than On Guard, which is intended for Christians.
> You can only pray for the same thing over and over so many times with no change before it starts feeling hopeless.
Keep praying. If you are not already doing so, pray the Rosary. Even if God is not granting you the request(s) made in your prayers, know that there is a good reason for doing so. The reason(s) may never be known during your time on earth, but do not allow this to damage your relationship with God.
> The prospect of returning just feels so lonely. Our parish is huge and no one ever says a word to me. Does anyone have any advice or encouragement?
Many parishes have bible studies or meetups of some kind that would give you the opportunity to meet other Catholics. It is better to feel lonely and do what is right than not feel lonely and fail to do what is right.
I'm not /u/hungrystegosaurus, but here are a few personal suggestions:
Philosophy on the whole -- Copleston is the standard and for good reason
Early Greek philosophy -- Nietzsche has a relatively accessible and worthwhile overview on many Greek sages that I found to be a supremely helpful, though controversial, introduction
Plato -- Very, very tough to recommend any good introduction to his work taken holistically, but I'll go out on a limb and recommend something Straussian, which is a little tough for a first-timer but grounds Platonic philosophy in living moral and political issues OP is likely more familiar with. Shorter dialogues like the Meno and the Apology might also be worth checking out
Aristotle -- Forget the abstruse metaphysics; stick with the ethics. The Cambridge intro is adequate
Renaissance / Enlightenment philosophy -- Not my primary interest, but rather than plunging into Kant, try something like the Novum Organum by Bacon, which is an admirably clear laying-out of the Enlightenment project, written without impenetrable jargon and in a digestible aphoristic style
Nietzsche -- Most anything by Kaufmann will do, but this is a nice piece
Heidegger -- Richard Polt's introduction
Existentialism in general -- Not a written reference, but this video lecture series by Solomon, an excellent UT philosophy professor, makes for a nice companion
Contemporary philosophy -- /u/ReallyNicole, one of this subreddit's moderators, would be able to offer a ton of great introductory material. She's sort of a pro at linking to articles
This is barely scratching the surface, but scratching the surface is more than enough. If OP can get through even half of this material in a year or two's time, he'll be well on his way to developing his philosophical faculties and familiarity.
To recommend motherfucking Being and Time or the Critique of Pure Reason (without supplemental aids, no less) to a 17-year-old novice is so egregiously, maddeningly, ball-shrivelingly stupid and such wholly, purely, offensively bad advice that I honestly wouldn't mind seeing /u/JamieHugo permanently banned from this subreddit for corrupting the youth.
I remember reading your original post. I'm glad you went to your first mass and will be studying Catholicism.
Have you heard of the book Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist by Dr. Brant Pitre? It explains the Eucharist from a Jewish perspective. I highly recommend it to anyone studying Catholicism.
I'd recommend the recent book by Edward Feser and Joseph Bessette, By Man Shall His Blood Be Shed, a historical and philosophical defense of the traditional Catholic view on capital punishment.
> It is harder to say positively what Jesus meant by 'kingdom of
God'. Intensive efforts over the last hundred years to define the
phrase have left the issue more confused rather than clearer. There
are, however, two meanings that would have been more or less self evident
given standard Jewish views. One is that God reigns in
heaven; the 'kingdom of God' or 'kingdom of heaven' exists
eternally there. God occasionally acts in history, but he completely
and consistently governs only heaven. The second is that in the
future God will rule the earth. He has chosen to allow human
history to run on with relatively little interference, but someday he
will bring normal history to an end and govern the world perfectly.
Briefly put: the kingdom of God always exists there; in the future it
will exist here. These two meanings are perfectly compatible with
each other. Anyone could maintain both at the same time, and in
fact millions still do.
>You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today ...
I'm sure you've read this but a big part of early spiritual development is working on that cycle of repentance and return.
As you get older and are able to do more, you will also have the chance to grow. Don't worry about not being able to stick to a schedule now - perhaps simplify it at first?
If you've not read Augustine's Confessions I highly recommend it. This is a good guide to it. If you can't buy them/find them at your library, let me know and I'll see what I can do.
As you are still at home, perhaps the single largest thing you can do in your situation is love your parents and obey them dutifully. Study them, recognize their faults, and ask yourself, "What can I do to help them with their failings? What can I do to make their lives easier?" This doesn't mean lecturing them, but helping. For example, if your mom is always complaining that your dad forgets to take out the trash, do it for him.
These things sound so small, but they are the small steps on the path to holiness. We don't all start by hugging lepers.
As /u/z_grady mentioned below, the Catechism is a good reference work - if you have a question about what the Church teaches the Catechism will often answer it. Another reference is Denzinger which may be of interest even to non-Catholics as it contains all the magisterial documents from the earliest Church, including such things as:
>Since as we have learned from your report, it sometimes happens because of the scarcity of water, that infants of your lands are baptized in beer, we reply to you in the tenor of those present that, since according to evangelical doctrine it is necessary "to be reborn from water and the Holy Spirit" [ John 3:5] they are not to be considered rightly baptized who are baptized in beer.
But to find out more about why the Church teaches something, you'll often have to dig into the references.
I recommend reading The Confessions of St. Augustine. It's a classic, and even beyond the faith aspects, it's an extremely interesting historical document -- the first memoir ever written, from 4th century Rome.
That and "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis.
You'll be able to find both at most well-stocked libraries or cheap online.
Would it help if we just renamed ourselves "Followers of the Jewish Messiah?" Christianity is just the name of the collection of people who ended up following Jesus as the Messiah. Some of us strongly follow our Jewish roots in our practices under the New Covenant.
Jay Dyer is a Protestant turned Catholic turned Orthodox turned SSPX turned Orthodox... I've seen him on Twitter being called out on certain points by serious Catholics and he just blocks them, that is when he's not shitposting... not arguing in good faith.
Listen, you're going to need to read...
https://www.amazon.com/Early-Papacy-Synod-Chalcedon-451/dp/1586171763
https://www.amazon.com/Upon-This-Rock-Scripture-Apologetics/dp/0898707234/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=057Q3P8G8BYR2CDNDPNV
https://www.amazon.com/Studies-Early-Papacy-John-Chapman/dp/1475044909
Check out Erick Ybarra's stuff too, he even has some long form interviews on Youtube Jay Dyer prefers to debate people he knows he can beat in live interviews...
https://erickybarra.org/2018/02/11/does-the-filioque-subordinate-the-holy-spirit-to-creation/
Any of these:
Or:
You could write several large books on that topic alone.
Personally, I think there's a lot of garbage, namby-pamby advice in this thread.
As Venerable Fulton Sheen said, "There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church — which is, of course, quite a different thing."
If you believe the Catholic Faith is true, then presumably your end goal is their conversion. If it's not, it should be.
Perhaps the initial explanation won't go well. That's fine. Whatever happens, don't burn any bridges. Unfortunately, since it's today there's not much more prep you can do.
The best advice I can give is to come armed with what they think they know. Beyond the initial, emotional reaction, they will have arguments. Maybe not today, but they'll come. They already know what they're going to say. They already have their "Catholicism is the Whore of Babylon Talking Points" on a 3x5 index card (even if it's just a mental index card.) So what do you do? Surprise them. Steal their lines. Ask questions that they aren't expecting. Since you already know all of the anti-Catholic talking points, you are (hopefully) well prepared to counter them with clarity and charity, using Holy Scripture as your guide.
Also, remember you're not alone in this. LOTS of fantastic people have made this conversion. Here are a few book recs that are relevant.
Catholicism and Fundamentalism
Rome Sweet Home
Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic
Crossing the Tiber: Evangelical Protestants Discover the Historical Church
I haven't read this one yet, but it also looks awesome. Dr. Brant Pitre also writes on this topic:
The Fourth Cup: Unveiling the Mystery of the Last Supper and the Cross
If you are in college, seek out your Catholic Campus Ministries program, if you have one, and speak to the representative about RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults).
If the college has no CCM (or its equal), then seek out the local parish in your area and speak directly to the pastor about converting to the faith.
Before all of this, though, pray.
If the pastor you go to makes you feel like you have to run the gauntlet to join the Roman Church - this is a good thing. We have too many lukewarm Catholics who do not practice what the Church teaches. If you're going to join, we want you to be all-in.
Next, study. Do your own research with the Scriptures, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and Canon Law to be your guide.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask them here (or with your local pastor).
Edit Recommended Reading
I also recommend watching some episodes of Catholicism by Fr. Robert Barron.
Hi forthewar! Don't worry about asking a question. We don't bite here. Well, maybe when we're drunk. But we make sure go to confession right after. ;)
One of the advantages of being Catholic is that a lot of the history and documentation are available in primary sources. The disadvantage is that the sources are very tough reads. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC for short) is available online. It is comprehensive, and contains many links to sources, but it is a very dense read. (If you are really interested in these questions, want a reference, and/or are a glutton for long reads, then St. Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologica - the foundation of Christian philosophy and metaphysics - is also available online.. It's even more dense than the CCC. These are essential references for specific questions, but straight reads are not recommended.
Besides Catholicism for Dummies suggested below (I don't know if that's funny or sad...), the best modern general overview of Catholic teaching is Catholicism: A Journey to the Heart of the Faith by Fr. Robert Barron. It's comprehensive, but also very readable. There's a companion video series by the same name, and Fr. Barron is also very active in the online arena, frequently posting columns and videos on the Word on Fire site. Peter Kreeft's Catholic Christianity: A Complete Catechism is a condensed version of the CCC, but some people might find it a little too academic. Kreeft also did the same for Aquinas in A Shorter Summa.
If you're looking for a more specific and concise source on the history of the rites Catholic use during our masses, I'd recommend The Mass of the Early Christians by Mike Aquilina. The last chapter alone - a "you are there" description of a Christian Mass in Second Century North Africa - is worth the price of the book. It brought home to me just how ancient and constant our Catholic rites and traditions really are.
And of course, if you come across something in your explorations that doesn't make sense, come ask us. That's what the interwebs are for, no?
Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial?
You might want him to read The Seven Storey Mountain. It's an autobiography about an atheist converting to Catholicism and then becoming a Trappist monk. It's written beautifully, and I found that the main character, even though this was written years ago, still remains relatable.
Brendan Pitre has a book about Jewish Roots of the Eucharist. I think the case for the fourth cup of the Passover is quite convincing. But that cup is the same as the cup of suffering that you're referring to. That's what it symbolizes.
Link to book: https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Jewish-Roots-Eucharist-Unlocking/dp/0385531842
A real good book with tons of resources on the primacy of Peter is called Upon this Rock.
Whether it would work for you as a "beginner" probably depends on your temperament. It's very much in the style of a textbook or reference book. It's arranged topically, and will give a basic summary of the topic in question, along with notation of the strength of the teaching (whether it be dogma, doctrine, the general consensus, etc.) and references to primary sources.
As to the references, it typically refers you to Denzinger's Enchiridion Symbolorum, and I share the popular opinion that the two books are best read together.
Might want to check out Trent Horn's book Why We're Catholic, especially these chapters:
Why We Believe in Jesus
Why We Believe in the Resurrection
Basically, God answered your reasonable question by giving us the Resurrection, something know to be impossible before and after under normal circumstances as evidence. Once you accept the Resurrection you can be sure God is the Catholic God.
You might actually have the same view as us on the Eucharist (I'm not really sure) but I
LOVE
Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist by Brant Pitre. Its simply phenomenal.
The Faith of the Early Fathers is one of my favorites when it comes to the Church Father’s. It is three volumes in chronological order. It is topical and it is a very good survey of the teaching of each of the fathers.
Catholicism, an easy read by Bishop Robert Barron.
This is where many people have directed me. I generally read from Schaff's collection on an e-book, available for a few bucks here (when I'm not borrowing them in actual print form from my pastor's library).
(it's later)
First, it's good that you've recognized that you're having a hard time loving yourself, and want to change that so that you can love others.
Someone mentioned therapy, and that is worth looking into. I currently see a cognitive behavioral therapist (for clinical depression) - I spent a while in an environment where I was being told by someone I loved and trusted that I wasn't good enough, couldn't do minor tasks right, wasn't trustworthy, etc. I am a positive, optimistic, relatively confident person, but after a while that stuff gets into your head because of hearing it so much. So I had to do a little relearning to think that I am lovable, that I am able to do things. Our emotions call up thoughts that reinforce those emotions; our thoughts call up emotions that go with the thoughts; it makes a loop; if you get into a bad loop, there are techniques for getting out of it and for getting into a better pattern of thinking and feeling. You could find out a little about CBT and see if that sounds like it would help.
Second, I suggest reading either Story of a Soul or Time for God (take a look on amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Story-Soul-Autobiography-Therese-Lisieux/dp/0935216588
https://www.amazon.com/Time-God-Jacques-Philippe/dp/1594170665
and go with whichever appeals to you more at the moment.)
Third, when saints love their neighbors it is as an overflow from loving God (we love God; we know God loves everyone and wants them to get to heaven; we want what God wants because when you love someone you like to please them; so we want everyone to get to heaven and we love them for God's sake). I do not think we start out by doing that... But in the long run you will want to ask God for a greater love of God, and in the short run also ask him to help you to be willing to let him love you (we love God because he loves us first. Our love is a response.)
I too grew up (80s, 90s) with some pretty lousy CCD; it was a little better after switching to a Catholic high school, but I still went into college with surprisingly little knowledge about the content of Catholic doctrine.
In trying to rectify the current crisis in catechesis, I've seen plenty of people advocate for a return to pre-Vatican II CCD, i.e. the Baltimore Catechism for children and even dogmatic manuals (e.g. Ludwig Ott's Fundamentals of Dogma) for adults. After all, such sources are chock full of content, which is precisely what has been missing in much of the empty catechesis that has been going on for the past few decades.
However, I'd strongly advise against reverting to these sources. While they may have plenty of content, it's content that misses out on many of the wonderful developments and insights at and since Vatican II. E.g., they treat "revelation" as a propositional body of truths, rather than more fundamentally as God's relational self-disclosure to us (cf. Dei Verbum). It's for reasons like this that an entire generation of the 20th century's greatest theologians (e.g. Ratzinger, de Lubac, Rahner, von Balthasar) had major reservations about the manual-style theology that produced the Baltimore Catechism, etc.
Thankfully, the Catechism of the Catholic Church was a big step in communicating content of the Catholic tradition in a non-manualist sort of way, taking into account many of the rich developments which occurred at and after Vatican II. However, it's so voluminous that using it as a "textbook" for catechesis, even for adults, is pretty impractical.
I'd steer you toward using Card. Schönborn's YouCat, a simplified youth catechism based on the CCC, as a textual resource for teaching CCD. It has many of the advantages of the Baltimore Catechism (succinctness, Q&A format, content!) without the outmoded theology.
TL;DR - As far as textual resources for catechesis, rather the trying to slog through the voluminous CCC or reverting to the (clear but outdated) Baltimore Catechism, look into using YouCat.
First of all, welcome back, brother. I am especially touched that your fiancée would even suggest to find a Catholic Church. (As an aside, you're not a convert; you're a revert since you're already baptized into the Church. I thought maybe you'd appreciate that factoid.)
​
>I am looking for information about your Church, whatever you think is important to know.
There is a lot to know and many here would recommend a million and one things to study, especially since it sounds like you enjoy a good intellectual pursuit. I'm not going to discount others' recommendations, but I do want to highlight one thing: learn more about Jesus first. Find out what He taught, who He is, what His disciples and closest friends said about Him, what the Old Testament said about Him, etc. To that end...
​
>I am looking for recommendations for a Catholic-approved version of the Bible, geared towards someone who appreciates philosophy and prefers something close to the original translations, or the most accepted by the Church.
First thing to note, all Catholic Bibles have 72 books. Protestants have 66. If you can't get a hold of a Catholic Bible, a Protestant one will do for now until you do get around to buying a Catholic one. Now, as for Catholic Bibles, if you speak/read Latin you can't go wrong with the Vulgate Bible. It's a Bible that was translated by St. Jerome who was fluent in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin; he had the original manuscripts -- some of which are lost to us today -- so his translations are widely accepted as authentic and faithful.
There's also the English version of the Vulgate Bible known as the Douay-Rheims. It's an almost word-for-word translation of the Latin so the English will sound archaic to our modern ears. It's not as frustrating as, say, reading Shakespeare but it's pretty close. I personally prefer (and currently use) a Douay-Rheims Bible that has the Clementina Vulgata beside it. It's essentially Latin and English side by side. You can find one here.
If want one with plain English, the New American Bible Revised Edition would suffice. (If you use this website, let me know. I have a discount code from my last purchase.)
​
>I know nothing of the culture or norms of the Church, or what to expect as a new member.
One major rule to remember is that you can't receive Holy Communion until after you've gone to Confession. Given your situation, I would recommend setting up an appointment with a parish priest so he can give his full attention to you and your needs.
​
>I do not know how to introduce myself to the congregation
There's usually no need to introduce yourself to the congregation since parishes tend to be big. If you would like to formally introduce yourself, however, give the parish priest a call and set up a meeting with him. It would also be a great chance to speak with him about your situation and get some pastoral guidance.
​
>or tell a good Catholic church from a lesser one
Many here would recommend a more traditional parish. If that's not available, I'd say any Catholic church would do. If you're unsure about a particular church's standing, just give us the details on this sub. I'm sure someone here would be able to double check for you.
​
>I know nothing of the Saints or the miracles, or what has been confirmed by the Church and what hasn't.
These are things you can learn later on. Focus on Jesus first. Rebuild your relationship with Him. Start with the basics; if you don't, you might burn yourself out. There is A LOT to learn about the Faith. Some say it's a lifelong endeavour. :P
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>I am also looking for a reading list to explore Catholic philosophy beyond those you typically encounter in standard philosophical reading, such as Aquinas or Pascal.
Hmmm... this depends on what sorts of things interest you. A good one that lightly touches on philosophy is Socrates Meets Jesus by Peter Kreeft (anything by this guy is pretty good, by the way).
A book that may be more pressing to your current situation is Why Be Catholic? by Patrick Madrid and Abraham Skorka, Why We're Catholic by Trent Horn, as well as Why I am a Catholic by Brandon Vogt. (They might need to work on a more original title, though :P) Since you have an Evangelical background, Crossing the Tiber by Steve Ray might be helpful (although it can be a bit dry; also, it mostly deals with the Church's teaching on Baptism and the Eucharist) as well as Rome Sweet Home by Scott and Kimberly Hahn.
You can never go wrong with classics such as a collection of C. S. Lewis' works, The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri, The Seven Story Mountain by Thomas Merton, and Confessions by St. Augustine.
If you want a historical examination of Jesus and the Early Church, a good place to start is The Case for Christ by Brant Pitre, The History of the Church: From Christ to Constantine by St. Eusebius, and The Fathers Know Best by Jimmy Akin. I'd like to thrown in Jesus, Peter, and the Keys by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David J. Hess. This last one pertains to the Catholic claim regarding the papacy (and which I think is one of the strongest arguments in favour of the Catholic Church being the original one that the Lord founded).
Finally, there are YouTube channels you can follow/binge watch such as Bishop Robert Barron and Ascension Presents. Also, an amazing video about the Catholic Faith is a series made by Bishop Barron when he was "just" a priest called Catholicism.
I'm sorry if that's overwhelming but you raised some good questions. :P Anyway, I imagine it may be a lot right now so take it slowly, don't dive in through all of it at once. Find a local Catholic church, call up the priest, set up a meeting, then take it from there. And remember, you can always pray; God's always willing to talk with you.
The papal resource would be the Catechism, but that's a big book (though essential, and available online.)
The official TL;DR for the Catechism is the Compendium of the Catechism (online but also available in hard copy)
The TL;DR for the Compendium is the YouCat
(edit) You could also try the Missionary's Catechism. I recently heard a homily from a former military chaplain who used this to catechize his flock of Devil Dogs.
YouCat (edit: or Missionary's Catechism) too long? Try a book like Outlines of the Catholic Faith - only 84 pages excluding endnotes and index. Once you orient yourself with a book like this, you can start filling in using the more complete resources.
I stayed at a monastery for the Royal, Celestial and Military Order of Our Lady of Mercy and the Redemption of the Captives for quite some time discerning.
It was wonderful. I loved all the friars, priests, and sisters that I met. I love working with children, and they were connected to a school which we visited on a few occasions to teach the very young children biblical stories. I enjoyed morning and evening prayer, and on Saturdays they would sing the Salve in community. I loved that they wore their habits, and the charisms of the Order. There was so many aspects to enjoy.
Though I loved it, I never took it further since I had a few hang-ups. The monastery was too loud and busy, I am drawn to something a little more contemplative, or at least with that as a partial focus. I also feel I may have a calling for fatherhood, so that had to be weighed in. The Order also celebrated the Ordinary Form in the monastery itself. I was drawn to the Mercedarians because of their more traditional aspects and the fact that they celebrated the Extraordinary Form at their nearby parish. The daily Mass in the monastery left me feeling profoundly sad and spiritually drained. I decided these factors were enough to discontinue my stay and discernment there.
Books I have found helpful in discernment:
And books I could not live without:
Books that have helped me come to a deeper understanding of the faith, and help me, not only grow as a Catholic, but orient my mind as one living in the modern world:
Best thing to do:
Speak to a priest at a local Roman Catholic Church.
Highly recommend reading:
I say talk to a priest first though :)
I read Rome Sweet Home by Scott & Kimberly Hahn and I thought it was a very good tale of conversion. There's a bit of light apologetics throughout and it was compelling enough for me to finish it in a day. (I hardly read.)
Next up on my list are The Lamb's Supper by Hahn, The Love Chapter: The Meaning of 1 Corinthians 13 by St. John Chrysostom, and An Exorcist Tells His Story by Fr. Gabrielle Amorth, exorcist of the Vatican.
If you know any young people, the YOUCAT is an invaluable resource if they don't want to sit through the entire Catechism. Of course you want to eventually point them to it but I find, at 22, it's more suited to me poor attention span.
Canticle for Leibowitz is my favourite Catholic fiction but that doesn't mean much because I haven't read anything else. If you're looking for a good Catholic writer, I hear Flannery O'Connor is one. Of course Tolkien is a giant as is Chesterton (literally).
That is a great point. In light of that argument, it has always been difficult me to come to terms with the Catholic stance on capital punishment. God knows that these people commit sins but has allowed them to live. How do we justify stepping in.
​
Someone suggested reading By man Shall His Blood be Shed by Edward Feser and Joseph Bessette. I'll be doing that
​
edit: spelling
As far as the death penalty goes, as others have commented it's not intrinsically evil. Edward Feser argues that this is infallibly taught in the book he co-authored titled By Man Shall His Blood be Shed. There has been a lot of confusion recently regarding this issue, since Pope Francis changed one of the Catechism paragraphs regarding the death penalty. If you're interested in this change and what it actually did, I recommend carefully and thoroughly reading this article from Catholic United for the Faith (CUF). It goes into some of the historical teaching of the Church on the matter, explains how we must interpret new statements in light of old teachings, and puts the change into context. It ends with some suggestions on how to practically implement the change.
> You need to show that the catholic god belief is actually somehow proven by history .
I was an extreme skeptic, so it took me over 10 years to sort out the history. That included reading dozens of books, and listening to hundreds of hours of debates and podcasts. If you are truly interested and are half as skeptical as me, I would recommend starting with the following :
This is a good overview: Why we're catholic by Trent Horn: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1683570243
How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization: https://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civilization/dp/1596983280 .
That said, there are a million reasons why people choose not to believe, even with all the evidence in the world in front of their face. God made each person with free will, so no one can "give" you a conclusion. You have to weigh the evidence for yourself. As a convert, I would also point out that knowing God is also as much of a matter of the heart. If you have vice in your heart (self-entitlement, lust, envy, gluttony, etc), you won't be able to connect with God. Also, if you are more interested in the trappings of the world ( luxuries, entertainment, hedonism), that will bias you away from recognizing God.
> the gospels for example are rife with markers of myth as opposed to actual history.
The reason why some myths match the Christian story is because all of humanity comes from the same place (the Ark). Those myths actually help confirm that Christianity is true. If everyone really evolved in different areas, then they would have wildly different stories and ways of being. Instead, people from around the world have the very same sense of where we came from and where things are going.
> And I absolutely reject Kalam, the Ontological Argument and whatever else is probably on that list of arguments as they all require assertions to which you haven’t sufficient evidence to make.
I used to reject them too. No offense, but you have to look at them a lot more carefully. That took me years. They all add up and compliment each other. At the very bottom of reality is an eternal infinite mind. By definition, this also makes existence rational because there is a rational mind. Atheism/materialism/naturalism is literally non-sense by it's own definition.
Without God (an eternal all-knowing mind), there can be no such thing as objective truth, facts, or ethics. Otherwise, all knowledge is temporary and subjective.
I've got both the OSB and the CSB Ancient Faith Study Bible. The commentary in the CBS one is very good, however there are problems withe the CSB translation itself. The CSB has a pretty clear low church congregationalist bias.
My advice: get both! The OSB has a more Orthodox friendly translation (and the commentary is good, but as you say is certainly coming from an Orthodox perspective). Then just use the CSB one for the commentary.
If no one has pointed it out to you already, there is another great resource for source material from the Church Fathers. The Complete Ante-Nicene, Nicene, and Post-Nicene Church Fathers Collection contains pretty much every work written by every Church Father and Doctor of the Church, East and West. It's also dirt cheap for the Kindle version. The only problem is this material is not curated in any way: you are literally getting all of it. It can feel like drinking from the firehose. In hardback it is something like 37 volumes? It's huge. My suggestion would be to start with the particular works you are interested in rather than reading it front to back.
> Was it purely from interpretation and majority vote that lead to establishing of doctrine of the trinity?
You mean, to distinguish it between the interpretation and majority vote that led to the canonization of the New Testament, the liturgical rites, worship on Sunday, etc.?
The Writings of the Church Fathers used to cost hundreds of dollars, take up tons of library space, and were a bear to find information. They're now $2.99 on Amazon, and, as are all other digital books, are searchable. Enjoy.
Sounds to me like his Catholicism isn't real, it's just another label he awarded himself.
Blow his mind and get him to read some Thomas Merton, Daniel and Philip Berrigan, Blessed Oscar Arnulfo Romero, among others.
Seven Story Mountain is one of the most powerful books ever written and flys in the face of the brand of not really catholic BS the SD is spewing.
Generally histories:
Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years
Chadwick - The Early Church
Retrieving Nicaea
Specific Important Authors
Apostolic Fathers
Origen Note: Not everything he said is orthodox, but he was an extremely important figure.
Desert Fathers
Athanasius - On the Incarnation
Basil - On the Holy Spirit
Gregory of Nazianzus
John Chrysostom
Augustine - Confessions
Rule of St. Benedict
Gregory the Great
Maximus the Confessor
John Damascus
Welcome
You did first part by contacting your nearest parish. They will send you to RCIA, Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults. It is kind of course that will teach you basics.
About reading these two newer books are good:
https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Catholicism-Religion/dp/0521608554
https://www.amazon.com/Catholicism-Journey-Heart-Robert-Barron/dp/0307720527
If you are short on money, I can recommend three older books which you read for free:
The faith of our fathers - Cardinal Gibbon
The spirit of Catholicism - Karl Adam
The belief of Catholics - Ronald Knox
Godspeed
If you have any specific questions, Catholic Answers is a great resource. Catholic Culture has good information on the liturgical year, and they also do reviews of Catholic websites. If you're interested in offline reading material, there's the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults, which (despite the name) is a very readable resource. I also really like Father Barron's Catholicism.
From simpler to harder:
A Well-Built Faith: A Catholic’s Guide to Knowing and Sharing What We Believe
Short, simple introduction to Catholicism
Catholicism: A Journey to the Heart of the Faith, by Bishop Barron
A very readable overview.
YOUCAT
A book that tries to explain the Catechism to Teens and Young Adults. More thorough than the above books.
United States Catholic Catechism
for Adults
Similar to the above, but targeted to adults
Catechism of the Catholic Church
Really a reference, but included here for completeness
You can go to confession, but they just won't pray the prayer of absolution over you yet. At least where I'm at.
Watch and pray. After you fall the next time, take some moments and reflect on the thoughts you were having that led up to it. There are always choices and always thoughts that lead to those choices. I don't have the same struggle, but it's analogous to me and alcohol. A little voice that says "you can feel better."
If you haven't you should read
[The Mountain of Silence](http://amzn.to/Pr2A9l
).
Also, read this.
Every day is a new day.
>Brother Guy Consolmagno is first religious brother to receive the prestigious science award.
>If you met an alien from outer space, would you welcome him into your RCIA program and baptize him at the Easter Vigil?
>That's the question posed by Michigan-born Brother Guy Consolmagno, Jesuit astronomer and planetary scientist, in his latest book, “Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial?” The book, co-authored by Father Paul Meuller, S.J., looks at serious and humorous questions from the astronomers' in-box at the Vatican Observatory, and reveals how science and faith look at the same issues in different but complementary ways.
Has anyone read the book?
I've been meaning to read Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial?
I like to call this "going Jurgens"
Except there are better ones out there.
When I say Aslan's scholarship isn't there, the issue is he uses flawed scholarship and presents it as fact. Some of this scholarship has actively been discredited, others are widely criticized for methodological issues (using circular logic to back up their conclusions), and is very contentious on some fundamental problems. Aslan makes a lot of claims as if they're truth but which cannot be proven because we lack the evidence to make such conclusions.
I'll be upfront on my bias here: Aslan relies on 19th century German scholarship and the Jesus Seminar and I simply think these sources of the historical Jesus are not sound. I contend that the streams of scholarship he relies upon tends to present speculation as fact (and a lot of the speculation has been treated as fact). The Jesus Seminar in particular is roundly criticized for using circular logic to make conclusions. I think these critiques are fair and do suggest that the conclusions of the wider Jesus Seminar should be handled as suspect. I believe archeological evidence disproves assumptions made by the Jesus Seminar when it comes to aging texts. This matters because the Jesus Seminar went through texts and voted on each one's authenticity based on their unproven assumptions -- deeming passages inauthentic (and thus later additions) based on criteria that were unproven and perhaps even disproven.
Aslan is a bad starting point because he uses questionable scholarship, doesn't question it, and then presents this "historical" portrait of Jesus based on his reading of this scholarship. Scholarship which archeological evidence actively contradicts at times.
I haven't read this book, but I've read some of his articles, and E.P. Sanders is commonly seen as a good starting point who makes good use of archeological evidence to draw conclusions.
N.T. Wright and Marcus Borg co-author a book which goes through various aspects of the search for the historical Jesus. Wright and Borg are friends (and I think went to school together? They both had the same mentor, anyhow) but have very different views. Wright is highly critical of the Jesus Seminar, Borg was part of the Jesus Seminar but is also a bit of an outlier due to his more mystical understanding.
The point is that there's much better starting points. I think any of the links I've provided are good ones. But Aslan simply because if Aslan is your jumping off point, you're mostly going to get scholarship that he agreed with to make his point.
Sorry that this will sound patronizing, but how educated are you about the Bible as a historical document? I majored in religious studies with a focus on Christian origins. I know a good bit about it.
> Jesus claiming to be God IS the whole point of the new testament
This is basically true. But that's not the same as what Jesus, the historical figure, said or believed.
The Bible is inarguably a hodge-podge of different stories and accounts, many of which conflict with each other. The book of John was written much later than Matthew, Mark, Luke, or "Q" and reflects an advanced notion of Christian theology. It's no coincidence that Jesus says things in John that are much different than in the other three. The author of John wasn't somehow aware of Jesus-sayings that the other authors weren't.
> Most everything in the Gospels is proof of the fulfillment of the OT prophecy about the messiah.
Most everything in the Gospels is certainly written to be proof. The authors definitely had that goal in mind. But it doesn't mean that the actual historical events were proof.
> I don't know where you got this nonsense about later sources being less accurate, but there is simply no basis for that.
Yes, there is. I got it from my bachelor's degree (and, ya know, from common sense). I invite you to start your research here and continue with books like this and this (or even this). If you've never performed comparative study of the gospels, this is a neat resource too. (Note that the latter book doesn't even mention John, which is just that far removed from the other gospels.)
> to say Jesus never reliably claimed to be God is just insane
As wrong as you are about the historical facts, I will back off a little here: there is sufficient evidence that Jesus believed himself to be the "Son of Man," and probably even the Messiah. However the more historically reliable documents suggest that he was extremely cagey about saying this himself (Matthew 16 is a perfect example of this), whereas the less reliable documents have him declaring it quite explicitly.
All that being said, I think we left the primary point a little bit. Jesus most certainly was a moral inspiration (whether he called himself that or not), and it's that example—not literal salvation—that my mother (and I, for that matter) are inspired by.
It's from his autobiography The Seven Storey Mountain
> why the Catholic faith is the only true faith as opposed to just "one of many paths," a.k.a. religious relativism
> Basically I need a book on how to counter moral relativism
Father Barron's Catholicism is a great book. Good for the beginner, but not overly simplistic.
Two different titles that might be along the lines of what you're looking for:
Catholicism, by Bishop Robert Barron
How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, by Thomas Woods
Hi, /u/CalmPassenger!
I'm on the journey to the Church; I come from the Reformed & Evangelical Protestant tradition - I raised many of the same concerns that you have. If it's alright, I'll share some links that I found helpful on this road! Many blessings.
"Why Are Priests Called Father?"
"Do Catholics Worship Statues?"
"Veneration of Images" from The Catholic Encyclopedia (this was especially helpful to me!)
"Why Do Catholics Confess Their Sins to a Priest?"
Edit: I can't recommend highly enough Karl Keating's Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on "Romanism" by "Bible Christians" - next to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it has been one of the most instrumental tools in breaking down the misconceptions Protestants often have about the Catholic Church.
I converted in 2006 based on my belief in Jesus and the scriptures... Read lots of good books. As a former Baptist, my favorite book was Catholicism and Fundamentalism: https://www.amazon.com/Catholicism-Fundamentalism-Attack-Romanism-Christians/dp/0898701775
Also pray lots and get comfortable with intercessory prayer -- that is asking others, even those who have gone before us, to pray for us... (e.g. Mary, Saints, and lower-case saints). "Praying to Mary" was my toughest thing to overcome, and once crossing that hurdle, I adore asking the Blessed Mother to pray for me.... Who better to capture the Lord's ear.
Oh man you're in for a treat!
https://www.amazon.com/Enchiridion-Symbolorum-Compendium-Definitions-Declarations/dp/0898707463
If you want to know Catholic doctrine, go straight to the source:
https://www.amazon.com/Enchiridion-Symbolorum-Compendium-Definitions-Declarations/dp/0898707463/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=denzinger&qid=1570396927&sr=8-1
If you have a kindle, you can get the entire 37-volume set of Schaff's Ante-Nicene, Nicene & Post-Nicene Church Fathers Collection, for $2.99. And unlike other ebook versions of this series, this one has active linked tables of contents (both for the whole series and for each individual book), rendering it much more usable.
Church Fathers
Free Resources
Other Resources
Fathers Know Best by Jimmy Akin
When the Church was Young by Marcellino D'Ambrosio
I really enjoyed these two as I made my way towards the Catholic faith over the past two years.
As far as the first man, Adam, being created by God, that’s not dogma—it’s just a Scriptural truth universal to all believers. The definition of dogma in the Church is “that which has been divinely revealed and declared by the Magisterium (teaching authority of the Church) to be believed as such”. Our knowledge of the history of man’s creation comes straight from the book of Genesis—predating the Church and Christianity itself—which is why it is not dogma.
Regarding evolution, the Church does not take an active stance on whether or not it is true, but that it is not in contradiction with our faith. That is to say if evolution is true, God would have certainly engineered it as an aspect of His creation, and it wouldn’t change anything about what we teach and believe. It’s totally kosher; here is an article about that.
"Why We're Catholic" Trent Horn.
This book is selling so well it was just translated to Spanish.
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Were-Catholic-Reasons-Faith/dp/1683570243
If there are things about the Catholic faith that you are unsure about, perhaps reading about the reasoning behind them might help. Obviously, it’s hard to give an explaination for the particular topics if you are not comfortable sharing what you are unsure about. However, I can recommend a book that gives a general overview and explaination of Catholic teaching. Perhaps it will help you explore your beliefs and questions further.
Trent Horn is an excellent writer by the way: https://www.amazon.com/Why-Were-Catholic-Reasons-Faith/dp/1683570243/ref=sr_1_1/132-7817317-5236054?ie=UTF8&qid=1540935635&sr=8-1&keywords=why+we%27re+catholic
God bless you and I hope you find some clarity with what you are struggling with.
Your welcome, this is a good forum if you want to learn more.
If your interested in learning more, I suggest the following 2 books
Catholicism: A Journey to the Heart of the Faith by Bishop Robert Barron
Why We're Catholic: Our Reasons for Faith, Hope, and Love by Trent Horn
Can I suggest reading something of the lives of the saints? Augustine's "Confessions" is pretty inocuous from a Protestant point of view. I really enjoyed Story of a Soul: The Autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux when I read it after my conversion.
Another good one to read, which I read before I re-converted (identified as a Christian again), was The Way of a Pilgrim and The Pilgrim Continues His Way.
Finally, I'm almost done with this book but it's awsome!!! If you can swing the price of the paperback it's probably better than the Kindle edition, but the Kindle edition is really affordable.
It's, Everyday Saints and Other Stories.
The Saints are the Gospel personified. They are they who the Church recognizes as having embodied Christ--lived the Gospel.
I also really got a lot out of this book: Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light: The Private Writings of the Saint of Calcutta
Hope some of this might help.
As Christians we have such a rich heritage.
> further understanding of Christianity
https://www.amazon.com/Sources-Catholic-Dogma-Henry-Denzinger/dp/1930278225
https://www.logos.com/product/5206/summa-contra-gentiles
https://www.amazon.com/Treasure-Tradition-Ultimate-Guide-Latin/dp/193663936X
https://www.amazon.com/Hell-Its-Torments-Robert-Bellarmine/dp/0895554097/
https://www.amazon.com/Great-Heresies-Hilaire-Belloc-ebook/dp/B00V2S7OQ2/
>and how people practice and live with their faith
https://www.amazon.com/Imitation-Christ-Dover-Thrift-Editions/dp/0486431851
https://www.amazon.com/Way-Perfection-Image-Classics/dp/0385065396
https://www.amazon.com/Story-Soul-Autobiography-Therese-Lisieux/dp/0935216588/
>Fiction
https://www.amazon.com/Lord-Rings-J-R-R-Tolkien/dp/0395974682
https://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Was-Thursday/dp/1603863303
>nonfiction
https://www.amazon.com/Orthodoxy-G-K-Chesterton/dp/1515241394
https://www.amazon.com/Heretics-Gilbert-K-Chesterton/dp/1490303022
https://www.amazon.com/Revolt-Masses-José-Ortega-Gasset/dp/0393310957/
https://www.amazon.com/Reality-Synthesis-Thomistic-Reginald-Garrigou-Lagrange/dp/1453612661/
> And none of them carried new scripture with them.
Many of them do;with the caveat the new confirms the truth. Saint Faustina writes a diary in the last 5 years of her life with the words of Jesus through out the 300+ page work. Sister Lucia wrote three books with the words of Mary, Angels and Jesus from the events starting in 1917 Portugal to include the Miracle of the sun. St. Therese of Lisieux writes a small book and she is declared a Doctor of the Church.
Some of their new scripture is not written as much as acted out like Saint Maximilian Kobe and Saint Teresa of Calcutta.
When the Church was Young, by Marcellino d'Ambrosio
this might be what you are looking for, When the Church Was Young: Voices of the Early Fathers https://www.amazon.com/When-Church-Was-Young-Fathers/dp/1616367776
I've heard nothing but good things about When the Church Was Young.
Start earlier than the Council of Nicaea. That'd be like skipping from the Declaration of Independence straight to FDR's New Deal... where's everything in-between?
First things first, there are some late first-century, early second-century texts to read. Some of these were even written before a few of the new testament books, making them contemporaries of new testament authors.
You know what? Just buy this and read it in order. It's only $3.00 on Kindle.
It's not a classic, but it's an enjoyable read nonetheless (and a little lighter than some of these titles): The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everything: A Spirituality for Real Life, by Fr. James Martin, S.J.
Hello happybadger,
I'm not a historical Jesus scholar, but you might find the following stuff useful:
Summary of some scholarship with suggested readings here.
Long video documentary from Frontline, 'From Jesus to Christ' here
I've read 'The Historical Figure of Jesus' by E.P. Sanders (listed in the summary above), but wasn't very pleased with it--mainly due to the problem with such scholarship pointed out by Luke Timothy Johnson and summarized by William Lane Craig here. Others reading in this vein like Geza Vermes' work.
You might also reread the canonical gospels and Acts with an outsider's perspective. As these are your most reliable source materials, any books or videos you study from will be constantly referencing them. In fact, that's probably the best place to start.
I hope that something there proves useful in your research.
>"Most historians would agree on"?? Lol!
That's pretty much what the majority of critical historians believe, yes. Christian, Jewish, atheist, agnostic ...
Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium,
Jesus of Nazareth: Millenarian Prophet,
The Historical Figure of Jesus are all very good books on the historical Jesus, easy accessible and mostly stick to the consensus of the historical community.
>What evidence is there for any of this outside of christian scripture? When topic like this arise there are always a few posters who don't seem to understand that a religion's own faith based holy books can't be used as evidence to support a religion's historical claims.
All written historical sources have some kind of bias. Historians are well aware of that. The job of the historian isn't to take everything written in the gospels, or in any other source, at face value. They have to approach it critically so they could find out what really happened in the past.
Definitely!
For philosophy and general Aquinas, you have to read Aquinas - A beginners guide by Edward Feser. We recommend this one a lot around here. The first couple chapters can be a bit dense if you have little philosophy background, but trudge through it and the rest of the book will immensely improve your understanding of the Catholic view of God its the basic underlying philosophy.
For a treatise on the Catholic understanding of the synergy of faith and reason, check out Fides et Ratio by Pope St. John Paul II. It is a bit dry, but it's short-ish.
Ok something more fun and autobiographical, I think Thomas Merton's Seven Storey Mountain is a very enjoyable read and a modern Confessions (St. Augustine). He writes so well and is extremely bright. This book nurtured by newly found faith more spiritually than intellectually, which was really what I needed (and need more of!).
There are some great writers in the Catholic blogosphere that have helped me understand things better too. My favorite is the website for America Magazine, the official U.S. Jesuit magazine. They post a lot of really good and thought-provoking articles. The next is Marc Barnes Bad Catholic, who is a younger writer that understands Catholic life in the modern culture. Edward Feser's blog is really great for new atheist smackdowns and Thomist critiques of everything. He's a bit polemical at times though.
That should get you started.
As C.S. Lewis said:
>It is a good rule, after reading a new book, never to allow yourself another new one till you have read an old one in between. If that is too much for you, you should at least read one old one to every three new ones.
So, I'd suggest picking up a classic like Confessions by Augustine. It's one of the best Christian books of all time. People are still reading it 1600 years after it was written.
This book is really great It's Catholicism: Journey to the heart of the faith by Bishop Barren
https://www.amazon.com/Catholicism-Journey-Heart-Robert-Barron/dp/0307720527
Frederick Copleston's history of philosophy is one of the most reputable histories of philosophy available, and the first volume covers ancient Greek philosophy.
I have a word of advice about this particular history of philosophy. I started off buying just the volume on the ancient Greeks, thinking that that would be all I needed. Well, over time, I gradually bought more and more volumes, each time thinking it would be nice to have this or that volume.
Long story short, I ended up buying each volume individually, which was more expensive than if I had just bought the newer editions which each contain three volumes in one book. I'm referring to these:
Book 1, Volumes 1-3
Book 2, Volumes 4-6
Book 3, Volumes 7-9
So, if you're the sort of person who buys a lot of philosophy books, like I am, you should probably just buy those three now and save yourself a bunch of money.
If you're sure you'll only buy the one book, on the other hand, you can go ahead and buy this, which will be cheaper in that case:
Volume 1: Greece and Rome
Let me know if you have any questions.
Fair enough. It was actually the first Ortho book I read, but for where I was it was just what I needed. But as you said, doesn't mean it's a good starter for everyone. I've heard a lot of people talk about "The Mountain of Silence" but haven't had a chance to read it myself. I'd also highly recommend "A Light from the Christian East". It's actually written by a Protestant professor but does a great job of explaining Eastern theology for western readers. It's a bit academic, but if that doesn't phase you check it out!
So, what you said isn't racist. It simply isn't. Claiming that all Muslims are the same race is far more racist (and inaccurate) than what you've stated.
All of that said, your argument is at best dishonest and should be reconsidered. Here's why.
Several years ago, the Vatican held a series of talks with prominent atheist philosophers. Famously, Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitches were excluded. The reason given was that they "read religious texts like fundamentalists."
Why is this important? Well, for two reasons. First, no Catholic in his right mind takes a literal view of many of the passages of scripture. In fact, the literal interpretation of scripture is among the least useful ways to approach the religious texts (read the section on Genesis here). Second, many of their objections have been dealt with again, and again, and again by religious philosophers through the ages. It does no one any good to put someone into a debate who is ignorant of Augustinian thought on religious texts. At most Dawkins and Hitchens would have seemed idiot children trying to play dress up.
Similarly, there are many people who have discussed those very passages ad nauseam. And, unless you have significant evidence to the contrary, it is not normative (at least in most Islamic religious groups) to take those passages literally. What you've done is proof-text, taken a chunk of a text you disagree with ignoring context, and you've used it as the basis for an argument. That isn't honest.
That was actually one of the astronomers from the Vatican who were surprised by a question during a visit by Pope Francis to the UK. The whole story, plus a lot more, is told by Fr. Paul Mueller, SJ, and Brother Guy Consolmagno, SJ in "Would you Baptize an Extraterrestrial?".
For an intro to the Fathers, definitely recommend the 3-volume Faith of the Early Fathers by William Jurgens.
Faith of the Early Fathers: Three-Volume Set
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0814610250/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_Qo.0AbD48WTXZ
As far as Church documents, Denzinger is a standard reference (Ignatius has a nice copy on sale for $40 on Amazon), but it’s arranged chronologically which can make it harder for study. For a bit less, you can pick up a copy of The Christian Faith compiled by Jacques Dupuis, which orders everything by topic. This volume is not as comprehensive as Denzinger, but I like it a lot.
Enchiridion Symbolorum: A Compendium of Creeds, Definitions, and Declarations of the Catholic Church (Latin Edition) (Latin and English Edition) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0898707463/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_Yq.0AbN6564B0
The Christian Faith: In the Doctrinal Documents of the Catholic Church https://www.amazon.com/dp/0818908939/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_pr.0AbZBR1BD4
Maybe a few. Look for them in libraries before you buy. Don't be afraid to use Inter-Library-Loan.
I think you'd really like these: http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Early-Fathers-Three-Volume-Set/dp/0814610250 ...Pre-Nicene to the end of the patristic period. These are an incredible resource. Recommended to me by scott hahn.
Writer of that note needs to read this: http://www.amazon.com/Catholicism-Fundamentalism-Attack-Romanism-Christians/dp/0898701775
I cannot recommend Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating highly enough.
As a kid who was baptized Catholic and spent my childhood in a slough of Protestant denominations, this book was instrumental in dissecting and refuting the nuanced American-Protestant attacks on Catholicism. Keating is a masterful author and the chapters are short and accessible.
Well, it depends on how much these kids can handle.
Every Catholic should read The Imitation of Christ
The Lamb's Supper really gives a fantastic understanding of the Mass. You'll never look at it the same again. There's even a study guide for it!
I stumbled across Aquinas in middle school and I thank God every day. He's the reason I stayed a Catholic. I understand the Summa Theologica is hard to read, but perhaps Peter Kreeft's A Shorter Summa will do.
For the younger guys, I think Patrick Madrid is an ok choice. I think his classical Where's that in the Bible? will do.
For your older middle school kids (7th to 9th grade), please, please read Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body. Here's a beginner version. Teenagers are teenagers, ya know? They need to be aware of these things if their parents aren't discussing it with them. We live in a sex-driven society and we need to make sure they don't get off track :)
Good luck with your classes!
Peter Kreeft wrote "A shorter summa" which is a condensed version of the condensed Summa. Worth checking out and it's not too intimidating.
Here's the link
Lol you sound like my family.
Bearing False Witness: Debunking Centuries of Anti-Catholic History https://www.amazon.com/dp/1599475367/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_bfhNBb5VJRK76
Eusebius: The Church History https://www.amazon.com/dp/082543307X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_UfhNBb1P8XHR2
Upon This Rock: St. Peter and the Primacy of Rome in Scripture and the Early Church (Modern Apologetics Library) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0898707234/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fghNBbFWXATPK
That would be interesting to read. I bet it has heaps to do with Aquinas. I know Feser affirms a Natural Law Theory of Morality which is very Catholic and so might be a part of it. Generally, it's no surprise to me. I think any careful and rational inquirer who comes to believe the Nicene Creed will be lead to either the Orthodox or Catholic faith. And I think of those two the weight of the evidence is slightly but appreciably in favour of Catholicism.
It's catholicity better satisfies the Great Commission; I think a better case for continuity of aim and organisation back to the Apostolic Church (subject to certain qualifications) can be made; the Filoque is in my view needed to make sense of the Trinity; add to this good evidence for apparent miraculous confirmation in modern times by Marian apparitions at Fatima and Lordes etc.; and pretty good a priori arguments for the necessity of a living voice and so a papacy. To this last point one might add the historical argument for the primacy of Peter though that might be a bit controversial!
Here is a decent start: The Enchiridion Symbolorum by Heinrich Denzinger (latest edition)
I'd throw in Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything by Fr. James Martin. My fiance and I both found it useful as I was returning to the faith and she was joining it. It's a well-written, lighter introduction to Jesuit spirituality.
The Jesuits Guide To (Almost) Everything by Fr. James Martin, S.J.
I would recommend this book. I hope you find a community, religious or otherwise that you find fulfilling.
We all have our short-comings and limitation. Also we have our uniqueness. We must look at things that we do right. Where we have a flow. We must seek knowledge and wisdom. Philosophy. These things makes us better. Rather they reveal the best parts of us.
Here are some books that have helped me:
Here are some things I have saved that I read on and off
"What you need now to do is, to check how much you are on the feeling level and how much on the thought level. Most are, and naturally, on the thought level because that is our comfort zone. We have to act on that level. It is the functional level. We need it to study, operate, plan, achieve and so many other things like research, analysis, But we need the feeling level to relate to others. Sadly this is much neglected and we use our thought level to deal with others. we are not in touch with our feelings. To be a sensitive person we need our feelings. We will even rationalize away our feelings. So this is the beginning. "
"Feed your head." -Grace Slick
Where you are headed is more important than how fast you're going, yet people are consumed with speed rather than direction.
Concentrate every minute on doing what's in front of you with precise and genuine seriousness, tenderly, willingly, with justice. And on freeing yourself from all other distractions. Yes, you can, if you do everything as if it were the last thing you were doing in your life, and stop being aimless, stop letting your emotions override what your mind tells you, stop being hypocritical, self-centered, irritable. You see how few things you have to do to live a satisfying and reverent life? If you can manage this, that's all even the gods can ask of you.
-- Marcus Aurelius
Check /r/Stoicism or r/meditation
The bad things, don't do them.
The good things, try to do them.
Try to purify, subdue your mind.
That is teaching of all buddhas.
"If you are becoming a more patient, kinder, and less violent person, you are truly learning life's lessons."
Be a Wanderer and find the inner master that lies dormant within you.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0061432695/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1414030524&sr=8-2&pi=SY200_QL40
Check out this podcast from Bishop Robert Barron. Catholicism is deeply philosophical and rational.
I'm not sure what you mean about the genesis of homosexuality. What do you mean by it being a product of sin vs. nature? Catholics don't believe that character defects are caused by personal sin, and we believe that all of nature is corrupted (see: death, disease, misery).
You should read some teleological philosophy. It's where the "natural law" comes from.
Edit: try reading "The Seven Story Mountain" maybe.
My first try didn't seem to go through, so here's a second.
Amazon reviews are an okay place to start. A lot of people offer helpful comments. But, as you said, getting into thinkers that appeal to other audiences outside of just philosophers gets a bit sticky. I wouldn't be so quick to denounce or dismiss the religious aspect. Keep in mind if you want to read Augustine you'll be reading a religious thinker, so he has to be translated as such. For example, you could get a more technical translation of the Confessions, or you could find one operating more in the poetic spirit of Augustine, but regardless you're going to be reading a deeply religious text. Both are good translations, and both capture something of Augustine that the other probably misses. In the end, you have to ask yourself what you want more and what fits your purposes more. Also with regard to religious thinkers, it's important to try to read them on their own terms without having made up your mind before getting into the book. Allow yourself to agree with the thinker as much as you can--get inside their heads, travel with them, dwell with them. At the end, you can make a judgement, but give them a fair trial. This is also where translations can help. Some are simply more engaging, even if they're not "word-for-word" translations. A great example of this is Coleman Barks' "translations" of the poems of Muslim mystic Rumi. He actually completely fails (intentionally so) to translate Rumi word-for-word. Instead, he tries to write a poem in English that captures the language, feeling, and ideas of Rumi himself. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it's a lot nicer than just reading a book of translated poems full of footnotes and technicalities. If I'm going to write a deeply researched paper on Rumi, perhaps I should find another translation, but if I want to really learn Rumi and try to gain from his knowledge, I might want to begin with Barks.
As for other reviews, you can often find them simply by Googling. For example, here's a review on Hannay's translation of a book by Kierkegaard that is done in a professional, scholarly way. I found it on the first page of Google searching "alastair hannay translation review."
It sounds like hard work, and it is, but it's worth it.
Also, if it makes you feel any better we used Penguin editions for many of my undergraduate classes as text books.
Rediscovering the Church Fathers: Who They Were and How They Shaped the Church by Michael Haykin
The Spirit of Early Christian Thought: Seeking the Face of God by Robert Louis Wilken
The Early Church (The Penguin History of the Church) by Henry Chadwick
Early Christian Doctrines by J.N.D. Kelly
And of course, works such as On the Incarnation by St. Athanasius, and The Confessions by St. Augustine
I cannot comment on translation quality as my Latin is virtually non-existent, but I like this one.
That version has footnotes that explain references and fill in biographical detail, is part of the Oxford World Classics series, and costs $5.
It's not a Catholic book, but if you want to go the 'not pushy' route, I would suggest something like C.S. Lewis' The Great Divorce—something that gives a little bit of a taste of broader Christian theology, but that isn't itself overwhelmingly doctrinal (since I know that many non-believers tend to react quite forcefully against that kind of thing).
If you want to be more explicitly doctrinal but still just want to give a kind of inviting teaser into greater mysteries, I would recommend picking up a short topical work in theology. Something, perhaps, like Ratzinger's 'In the Beginning…': A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall.
Otherwise there's always Bishop Barron's Catholicism.
Another book that people recommend is Copleston’s History of Philosophy. The complete set consists of 9 volumes so it’s quite a long read tho.
https://www.amazon.com/History-Philosophy-Vol-Pre-Socratics-Plotinus/dp/0385468431
If you want a good history of philosophy with responses to basically everybody, Fr. Frederick Copleston's A History of Philosophy is pretty good.
Here's the first volume: https://www.amazon.com/History-Philosophy-Vol-Pre-Socratics-Plotinus/dp/0385468431/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1543579301&sr=8-4&keywords=frederick+copleston
Edward Feser deals with both the New Atheists, Enlightenment thinkers, and Old Atheists in The Last Superstition, Aquinas, and Neo-Scholastic Essays. Fr. Garrigou Lagrange's Reality is also worth it.
The Last Superstition: https://www.amazon.com/Last-Superstition-Refutation-New-Atheism-ebook/dp/B00D40EGCQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543579343&sr=8-1&keywords=the+last+superstition
Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Aquinas-Beginners-Guide-Edward-Feser/dp/1851686908/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1543579366&sr=8-6
Neo-Scholastic Essays: https://www.amazon.com/Neo-Scholastic-Essays-Edward-Feser/dp/1587315580/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1543579366&sr=8-5&keywords=edward+feser
Reality: https://www.amazon.com/Reality-Synthesis-Reginald-Garrigou-Lagrange-P/dp/1477582401/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543579439&sr=8-1&keywords=reality+garrigou-lagrange
Honestly, I tend to think Van Til's Presuppositionalism is a better system than a lot of Catholic philosophy. His book Christian Apologetics is probably his easiest to read, though I'll admit I've had more access to his ideas from his defenders than his actual writing: https://www.amazon.com/Christian-Apologetics-Cornelius-Van-Til/dp/0875525113/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543579550&sr=8-1&keywords=christian+apologetics+van+til
In a less theologically charged but similar category are Alvin Plantinga's Where the Conflict Really Lies and Warranted Christian Belief: https://www.amazon.com/Where-Conflict-Really-Lies-Naturalism-ebook/dp/B005X3SAHY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543579615&sr=8-1&keywords=where+the+conflict+really+lies+science%2C+religion%2C+and+naturalism
https://www.amazon.com/Warranted-Christian-Belief-Alvin-Plantinga-ebook/dp/B0059EQ4DY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543579634&sr=8-1&keywords=warranted+christian+belief
A good intro book is this. An author that might interest you is Philo, a 1st century Jewish philosopher, who tried to integrate Judaism and Platonism. The same book also has a section on early Jewish philosophy and talks about Philo.
The main thing about the Pre-Socratics is that they were for the most part materialists and tried to explain efficient causality in materialistic terms. Such a notion is entirely antithetical to the Judeo-Christian tradition since God created from nothing and cannot be identified with creation.
One thing to keep in mind is that the Apostles were not educated in general. John was an exception since he belonged to the priesthood. A lot of them probably didn't adopt Platonism precisely because they never learned about Plato. They were busy being tax collectors and fishermen. On the one hand, one can say the Apostles never held Platonism, but this is true even if they were ignorant of Platonism. The real question is whether there are tenants of Platonism which are compatible with Christianity; the Church Fathers answered affirmatively. Some parts are not, such as the neo-Platonic view of creation as emanation. St. Augustine is a good guide on this, since he adopts a lot of Platonism, especially from Plotinus (especially in the Confessions), while remaining highly critical of Platonism in City of God, like Apuleius and Porphyry. Some tenants of Platonism has even showed up in St. Thomas Aquinas with his use notions of exemplary forms, exemplarism, and participation.
St. Justin the Martyr is also a good resource to look into since he was a trained philosopher who converted.
I prefer Frederick Copleston's History of Philosophy over Russell's. Copleston doesn't inject as much of himself in there as Russell does in his work.
It starts with why you are interested in philosophy. Begin with your personal areas of interest (looks like you have a head-start there).
Perhaps a mix of both...
While true that there is no substitute for original texts, a little mediation to provide context and framework (which you can later disregard if you so choose) isn't so bad. In fact, that's what you're doing by coming to Reddit!
Mountain of silence: https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Silence-Search-Orthodox-Spirituality/dp/0385500920
It was recommended by my son and is a wonderful journey into Orthodox spirituality.
I heard it from someone at an old parish, and just accepted it was true. Looking now, the few sources I've been able to find on Orthodox sites seem to cite this book: https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Silence-Search-Orthodox-Spirituality/dp/0385500920
Mountain of Silence - by Kyriakos Markides
https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Silence-Search-Orthodox-Spirituality/dp/0385500920
​
Fr Arseny: Priest, Prisoner, Spiritual Father
https://www.amazon.com/Father-Arseny-1893-1973-Narratives-Concerning/dp/0881411809
​
The Orthodox Church - Timothy Ware
https://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Church-New-Timothy-Ware/dp/0140146563
​
Byzantine Thought and Art - Constantine Cavarnos
https://www.amazon.com/Byzantine-Thought-Art-Constantine-Cavarnos/dp/0914744224
Well, they're quite significant in modern Orthodox circles anyway. Your mileage may vary :-)
I don't know whether a catechism is the best kind of resource to provide. He should contact the priest nearest to him and establish a relationship - let the priest guide him. One way or another, he will need a spiritual father.
Depending on your friend's disposition, I might be more inclined to recommend Elder Cleopas' The Truth of Our Faith. Personally, I would definitely not recommend any of Clark Carleton's books. They are not inaccurate - I just think they are too polemical.
I would also strongly recommend Everyday Saints. The book is not any kind of catechism, but it gives a very strong sense of what an Orthodox life feels like, even though it is written from a Russian monastic perspective. The same holds true for Mountain of Silence, which is from the perspective of a Greek layperson.
As you continue your research, I think you will be surprised by just how Jewish the Catholic Church is. Many of our traditions and liturgical practices find their roots in Jewish traditions. The Church, the new Israel, is the fulfilment of the covenant. I would suggest Brant Pitre's Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist for a great explination of the Catholic Church's ties to Judiasim.
Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist by Brant James Pitre
This is an amazing book. Every Catholic should own a copy.
I just started reading this book you might find interesting.
There is! My bestie recommends his book.
Guy Consolmagno, SJ, the head of the Vatican Observatory, wrote a book called Would You Baptize An Extraterrestrial?
In general though, the Incarnation is a one-time thing. God could have revealed Himself to aliens in a different way, of course, but when the Son took on flesh and became Jesus Christ a unique mingling of human and divine natures took place. I'm also not sure that the Church would find acceptable the idea that the events of the Garden of Eden actually took place on some other planet billions of years ago and all life in the universe is decsended from there.
Personally, I think that if there are intelligent extraterrestrials they're Unfallen -- and they're staying away from us so we don't they're gods or something. Then again there might be very sophisticated biological machines the Devil has overseen the construction of.
I recommended this collection to her http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Early-Fathers-Three-Set/dp/0814610250
I converted 3 years ago and for awhile it was really a nightmare with my mom. I didn't think it would ever get better. But now the emotions are finally starting to settle and we're beginning to be able to have civil discussions about it. I have no idea where all of this will go, but I'm really happy that she's getting interesting in hearing why I converted and looking into some of it herself.
My advice to you would be to pray and pray for patience. Your parents might be really upset for years, but the more patience you have, the better it will be. And at some point things will settle down again. Always keep hope, you'll be amazed how much things can change with time!
If you want a nice survey of the Fathers, Jurgens' "The Faith of the Early Fathers" is a 3 volume set that includes a doctrinal index so that you can see what the Fathers (excerpts he decided to include) have to say about a specific topic.
The best book by far for you would be Catholicism and Fundamentalism. https://www.amazon.com/Catholicism-Fundamentalism-Attack-Romanism-Christians/dp/0898701775
It is comprehensive and has to do with exactly what you are talking about. It is protestant convert Scott Hahn's recommended book.
I was raised Evangelical... converted to Catholic in adulthood. There are a number of books that I could recommend. Here are some of my favorites - in order of importance/preference.
Ignatius Catholic Study Bible (only the NT though, they are currently working on OT)
Catechism of the Catholic Church
Catholicism and Fundamentalism (written in the 80's, but still very relevant and the best Catholic apologetics book to defend the faith that I've ever read)
Works of G.K. Chesterton Vol 3 (This volume explains why he converted from Anglican to Catholic)
Rome Sweet Home
The Fathers Know Best
Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic
Surprised By Truth
If you find Summa of the Summa too thick and intimidating, try A Shorter Summa by the same author. That is the book that got me started with St. Thomas.
Actually, Peter Kreeft did! He wrote a Summa of the Summa and then A Shorter Summa, which is only like 150 pages.
Quite frankly, I don't know why this isn't more popular amongst more academically inclined Protestants/high Protestants/Catholics. Or perhaps it is, but I've only seen it mentioned here once, about a week ago. It's great if you're at a cross roads between Orthodoxy vs Catholicism, and contains a monolith if information and Early Church & biblical citations. It's between 300-400 pages, with I swear half of every page being footnotes. Not your typical bedtime read, I suppose.
http://www.amazon.com/Upon-This-Rock-Scripture-Apologetics/dp/0898707234/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0GMBK4GZ7EFQC9653N6X
You might want to check out this book: https://www.amazon.com/Upon-This-Rock-Scripture-Apologetics/dp/0898707234
The youtuber LizziesAnswers here stated how it really helped her decide between orthodoxy and the Catholic Church. Hopefully it might help you too!
If you like to read, please check out
Upon this Rock This book is about the Papacy. & Crossing the Tiber, a Protestant conversion story, which includes a lot of Church history, and quotes from the early Church.
Hi. Your questions were exactly my questions, only 3+ years ago. I came from being raised in the Orthodox Church, and began to think about St. Peter's headship after listening to an Orthodox Podcast by Fr. Thomas Hopko.
What I will say is that there is an abundance of Grace available in both Churches. That being said, I eventually decided that I needed to be in communion with the See of Peter and so converted to Roman Catholicism.
You might want to check out this book. I read it, among many other things, though I'll have to dig out my stuff to see what else there was.
I spent time reading information about the Great Schism. As well, I became aware of the Photian Schism as well.
I'd ask you to consider the position of each Church with regard to the reception of the Eucharist by members of the opposite confession. I found that the Roman position was much more charitable toward what they consider their sister Church (or the other lung of the Church), as opposed to the Orthodox position which essentially considers Rome heretical, without outright saying so.
There is no question that Apostolic Succession resides in both Churches, so for me the Orthodox position comes off a bit "protestant" if you will. Thus, I have come to view them as the first Protestants.
I'll be glad to have more discussion with you if you come up with some questions you want to talk about.
Denzinger is a compendium of dogmatic/doctrinal/important statements of the Church. It has a scriptural index in the back, which allows you to look if there's an official interpretation on a certain Bible verse. It may not have every verse, or every authentic interpretation (and it's only magisterial statements, not interpretations of the Saints) but it is pretty good.
Also, this 1957 edition you've linked has been updated to include through to 2012 or so in the latest 43rd edition, here.
You could get a free ebook copy, skim it and decide. Alternatively you could do that and just read the entire thing without dropping that much cash on it - or use the cash on a Kindle and read the free ebook on there, and walk away with spare cash, a Kindle, and a whole rabbit hole worth of Christian literature potential.
There ... is a lot of Christian writing available for free, or very cheap, and the Kindle is a great way to read it, in my opinion. Exhibit A.
Not free, but you can't beat this set for $3. Caveat emptor: there are no footnotes in this edition. The more expensive version from CCEL does have the footnotes.
You can't go wrong by going through YouCat with them (The Youth Catechism which got thumbs up from Pope Benedict) https://www.amazon.com/Youcat-Cardinal-Christoph-Schonborn-editor/dp/1586175165
Historical evidence: [The Fathers Know Best] (https://www.amazon.com/Fathers-Know-Best-Essential-Teachings-ebook/dp/B004LGRYEE), [Complete Collection of the Church Fathers] (https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Ante-Nicene-Post-Nicene-Fathers-Collection-ebook/dp/B00KYBSUUM/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1493763857&sr=1-1&keywords=church+fathers), and [Four Witnesses] (https://www.amazon.com/Four-Witnesses-Early-Church-Words/dp/0898708478/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1493763945&sr=1-1&keywords=rod+bennett).
Scriptural evidence: [This] (https://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Defense-Catholicism-Dave-Armstrong/dp/1928832954), [this] (https://www.amazon.com/More-Biblical-Evidence-Catholicism-Armstrong/dp/1430322438), and [this] (https://www.amazon.com/Biblical-Basis-Catholic-Faith/dp/1592761461) look to be good places to start.
Not free, but $3 nets you The Complete Ante-Nicene & Nicene and Post-Nicene Church Fathers Collection which is a bargin.
I think the key difference between Catholic and Lutheran soteriology is that Luther was an Ockhamist and thus you get forensic justification, whereas for the Catholic, it is the infusion of divine life. Because of this, Catholicism recognizes the necessity but insufficiency of works for salvation, but Lutheranism rejects even the necessity because of such a different understanding of the relationship between grace and nature. When I first read Luther, I thought he sounded basically Catholic, but the problem was his metaphysics were so different from my own that we really don't believe the same things.
St. Thérèse is a Doctor of the Church and anyway her key contribution was her articulation of "the Little Way", which (put simply) is her teaching that to be a saint doesn't mean accomplishing great works but rather that all of your works be animated by God's love. In her case, she lived a humble life in the convent never accomplishing anything of particular note but simply living the Gospel to its fullness
The key to her spirituality is the Act of Oblation to Merciful Love:
>O MY GOD! Blessed Trinity, I desire to Love you and make you Loved,
To work for the glory of the Holy Church
By saving souls on earth and by liberating those suffering in purgatory.
I desire to accomplish your will perfectly
And to reach the degree of glory that you have prepared for me in Your Kingdom.
I desire, in a word, to be Holy, but I feel my powerlessness
And I beg you, O my God! to be yourself my Holiness!
>You loved me so much that you gave me your only Son
To be my Savior and my Spouse.
The infinite treasures of his merits are mine.
I offer them to you with gladness.
Look on me through the Face of Jesus and in his Heart burning with Love.
>I offer you, too, all the merits of the saints in Heaven and on earth,
Their acts of Love, and those of the Holy Angels.
>Finally, I offer You, O Blessed Trinity!
The Love and merits of the Blessed Virgin, my cherished Mother.
To her, I entrust my offering completely, imploring her to present it to you.
Her Divine Son, my Beloved Spouse, during his earthly life declared:
“Whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give to you!”
I am certain, therefore, that you will grant my desires; I know it, O my God!
The more you want to give, the more you make us desire.
I feel in my heart immense desires and
With confidence I ask you to come and take possession of my soul.
Ah! I cannot receive Holy Communion as often as I desire,
But, Lord, are you not all-powerful?
Remain in me as in a tabernacle and never separate yourself from your little victim.
>I want to console you for the ingratitude of the wicked, and
I beg you to take my freedom to displease you away.
If through weakness I sometimes fall,
May your Divine Glance cleanse my soul immediately,
Consuming all my imperfections like fire that transforms everything into itself.
>I thank You, O my God! for all the graces that you have granted me,
Especially the grace of making me pass through the crucible of suffering.
With joy I shall contemplate you on the Last Day
Carrying the scepter of your Cross.
Since you have chosen to give me a share in this very precious Cross,
I hope in heaven to resemble you
and to see shining in my glorified body the sacred stigmata of your Passion.
>After earth’s Exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the Fatherland,
But I do not want to lay up merits for heaven.
I want to work for your Love Alone with the one purpose of pleasing you:
To console your Sacred Heart, and to save souls who will love you forever.
>In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands.
Lord, I do not ask you to count my works.
All our justice is stained in your eyes.
I wish, then, to be clothed in your own Justice
And by your Love to receive you as my eternal possession.
No other Throne, no other Crown do I want but you, my Beloved!
>Time is nothing in your eyes, and a single day is like a thousand years.
You can, then, in an instant prepare me to appear before You.
>Finally, in order to live in an act of perfect Love,
I offer myself as a victim of holocaust to your Merciful Love.
I beg you to consume me incessantly.
Allow the waves of infinite tenderness shut up within you to overflow into my soul.
In this way, make me become a Martyr of your Love, O my God!
>In the end, after it has prepared me to appear before you, may this martyrdom make me die.
May my soul take its flight without delay
Into the eternal embrace of your Merciful Love.
>I want, O my Beloved, with each beat of my heart
to renew this offering to you an infinite number of times,
until the shadows are no more, and
I am able tell you of my Love in an Eternal Face to Face!
I would highly recommend giving Story of a Soul, her autobiography, a read.
I am confused what 'fallen in'' means and what your grandparents have to do with your question about your step-brother (or brother?).
Regarding your question, it seems that since your brother(s) is already 16, it is too late to have your mom make them get the sacraments. The spiritual life is now something that he needs to take ownership. Obviously, the love and guidance of you and your mom may help him in this endeavor.
In any case, I would encourage you to live and love the faith. Nothing changes hearts better than example (with God's grace, of course).
It seems that your mother is not the spiritual type. Evangelizing one's own family is a very difficult thing to do. I would talk with your mother about the spiritual life. Help her see that while she may have provided things like food and shelter (which are very good things), that isn't enough. Tell her that you realize in your own life, that need more than just physical life, but spiritual life too. You can tactfully extend this to your brothers whom you love. Over the course of some time, along with your own example and prayers, maybe she will see her responsibility to nourish her children's spiritual lives. You can also lovingly talk to your brothers. Also some books might help, they helped me when I first starting thinking about the spiritual life. My Daily Bread, The Faith Explained, Story of a Soul
In the meantime, while you save your money for the entire collection in print, you can get the Amazon Kindle version for $4. I got it a long time ago, and it was one of the reasons I later converted to Catholicism. So, I am very pleased with my purchase.
It is on Canadian Amazon, and I'm not sure out of country sales go. I hope that you are able to purchase it.
Here’s an EWTN article written for layman.
Edit: And here’s Feser’s book on the topic.
Pretty great! A Catholic friend suggested a companion book (When the Church Was Young) that's been super helpful. It's got a pretty obvious Roman Catholic slant, but the historical context it gives is awesome
When the Church Was Young: Voices of the Early Fathers
The audiobook for this makes me emotional at some points. Also, it's not a step by step historical account but rather a set number of scenarios of the early Church.
I'm currently reading When the Church was Young by Marcellino D'Ambrosio. It's about the first 800 years of the church and so far is a great read.
First and foremost. God loves you. This is the most important thing anyone here can relate to you. Just know that God loves you and He made you with a purpose.
Now, to make inroads to the Catholic faith, you need to approach this in a logical manner. Since you're coming from the perspective of an atheist, the common approach to recognizing the truth of the Catholic faith is as follows.
There are many classical arguments to answer the first question. The most basic and simple argument is a thought experiment that goes as follows. Where did I come from? If I was created, or caused, then who created me? If I say my father created me, then who created, or caused, him? If his forefathers created him, then what led to their existence? If the universe cause their existence, then what caused the universe? Continue in this manner, and the result is an infinite regression of causes. But an infinite causal regression is impossible because we can't have infinite temporal relapse. In other words, there must be an "uncaused cause," or what Aristotle referred to as an "unmoved mover." This primal cause is the cause of everything else, because everything regressed back to it, and we say it is infinite being, because everything that exists can trace its existence back to this one being. The unmoved mover, as such, is God.
You can read more about other proofs for the existence of God from the following author (who also is a former atheist, turned Catholic).
https://www.amazon.com/Five-Proofs-Existence-Edward-Feser/dp/1621641333
Once you have convinced yourself that the universe cannot be infinite and must therefore have an infinite Creator, you can perform another thought experiment. If the Creator is infinite in being and all powerful, can he, and has he, revealed himself to mankind? Well, if the answer is "yes," then we must search for the evidence of that revelation, and by nature of the history of human perception, we must find such a concrete revelation in the annals of human history. We read the Bible for the evidence of this revelation. In particular, the resurrection of Jesus brought to its completion the fullness of this revelation. Even secular historians agree on several main aspects of this story. A) Jesus died by crucifixion under Pontius Pilate. B) Early Christians testified that they saw the risen Jesus in the flesh. C) Many of these witnesses were martyred for proclaiming this. To summarize the argument for the resurrection, we look at what the alternative possibilities are and rule them out to draw the conclusion that the mainstream story is most plausible and therefore the accurate one. Gary Habermas, an evangelical Christian scholar, has made good work on this subject.
https://www.amazon.com/Case-Resurrection-Jesus-Gary-Habermas/dp/0825427886/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1518533326&sr=1-1&keywords=the+case+for+the+resurrection
Finally, you need to come to the recognition that the Catholic Church has the fullness of the Christian faith. To be brief, we as Catholics believe that Jesus Christ established this Church during his earthly ministry and made Peter the first Bishop of Rome (the Pope). Suffice it to say there is supporting Biblical scripture for this, and ample evidence that the early fathers of the Church regarded the Catholic Church as the one true Church, and further evidence that they observed the same traditions we Catholics carry on today. The supporting literature and apologetics for this subject are numerous, and I won't yet post them all. For starters, you could read Trent Horn's book. He's a relatively young Catholic apologist, and I really like his approach.
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Were-Catholic-Reasons-Faith/dp/1683570243
Another one that immediately comes to mind is how the Church was persecuted by the Romans, then somehow became the official state religion, and when the Romans try to take over the Church, the Church stood on the principle of separation of Church and State and actually prevailed. Later on, after the collapse of the Roman Empire, when the Huns invaded Italy, the Pope rode out to meet Attila the Hun. After that meeting, the Huns decided to turn around and not sack Rome.
There is another quote from soon to be St. John Henry Newman:
> To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant
Those who look at Church history realize the Catholic Church is the Church Christ founded and that we owe our assent to that Church.
So learning Church history will help. I recommend any book by Thomas F. Madden or Steve Weidenkopf. There is also a book by Trent Horn called Why We're Catholic which touches on this.
You can also check out the book How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization for a lot of information about how the Church has been a constant force for the good of mankind. You can also read Lumen Gentium.
But the best evidence of this comes from the witness of people who have followed Church teaching. When people submit to the teaching of the Church, do their lives get better or worse? How do their lives change the deeper they get into the faith? Read the lives of the Saints and look at the example of what happens to schismatics.
At the root of all this is not simply obeying the Church, it is a relationship with Christ. If the Church is truly the Mystical Body of Christ, then submitting to Christ presupposes submitting to His Church. Does following Church teaching help or hurt our relationship with Christ? For those who claim it hurts their relationship, the real question they should be asking is how well do they know Christ?
Dr. Edward Sri's Men, Women, and the Mystery of Love is probably the best introduction to John Paul II's Theology of the Body. It's very accessible, while also giving a thorough explanation. Here it is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Men-Women-Mystery-Love-Responsibility/dp/0867168404
Augustine's autobiography, Confessions, is the great classic on finding forgiveness and allowing God to heal wounds. He's pretty theological about talking about his own life, though, which might be difficult for someone just getting in. Luckily, Louis de Wohl's The Restless Flame adapts the story into a modern novel, and it's super awesome. Here that is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Restless-Flame-Novel-about-Augustine/dp/0898706033/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1509815450&sr=1-1
The lives of the saints is a fantastic way to get a better understanding of what a Catholic's life looks like. St. Therese's autobiography, Story of a Soul, ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/0935216588/sr=1-1-spons/qid=1509815650/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1509815650&sr=1-1-spons ) is probably the easiest modern autobiography of a saint to read. Some other great biographies include St. Athanasius' Life of St. Anthony ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/1536859249/sr=1-1/qid=1509815706/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1509815706&sr=1-1 ), and G. K. Chesterton's St. Francis of Assisi ( https://archive.org/details/francisofassisi00chesuoft ).
Thanks! I don't particularly like reading for long durations of time on the Kindle. Albeit, there is this collection for the kindle, which looks pretty nice.
But, I'd prefer to have a hardcover collection over a digital one.
Hi, u/Atrum_Lux_Lucis!
This is admittedly, not particularly my area of interest so I won't even try to directly respond to some of your questions as some others have. I have enjoyed reading them though!
I am responding because I remember a person mentioning a similar dilemma and I believe they found their answers in a book called the "Early Church Fathers" or something like that. Here's a link to what I hope is the right book: Early Church Fathers
Good luck and God bless!
I'd suggest Jimmy Akins The Fathers Know Best which compiles quotes from the Church Fathers and Akins enumerates them based on subject. It's not comprehensive but it's a good start and touches on a lot of things such as doctrines and dogmas, teachings and long held Church belief like contraceptives. It's a great book if you just want to look up what the Fathers have said and it's a great apologetics tool if you want to back up your positions. Either way, I think the following three books might be more inline with what you're looking for.
I haven't read this one, but I do know the author and it looks like it's right up your alley. Papandrea is a Catholic professor and this book covers important documents from the Early Church period and dissects the texts and explains them to you.
Another book that is similar to Papandrea's book.
Similar in content to the last two. Worth checking out.
And here's if you want to read the Church Fathers directly
I've constantly heard that the Jurgens 3 volume set was one of the best physical sets to buy. It's pricey, but I do know that it's cheaper on ebay so might be worth looking for it on there. (That is assuming you're within the US)
I suggest you buy it digitally for next to nothing, it's great on Kindle and works well as a more comprehensive resource for studying the Fathers. His set is also digitalized online if you'd like to read it there for free. Absolutely no difference in content. Word of caution though, Schaff translated this in the late 19th century and was a Protestant, so his commentary may not always be historically and theologically sound. He does provide an exhaustive amount of footnotes that maintain the citations the Fathers used which is a task of its own. A great resource but with certain limitations.
Here is an article detailing several early church fathers and their thoughts on Mary.
>St. Ephraem (d.373), the great Eastern doctor and deacon, directly addresses the Blessed Virgin in several Marian sermons. Direct prayer to Mary is also found in a sermon of the great Eastern Father, St. Gregory Nazianzen (330-389). (9) By the last part of the fourth century and the beginning of the fifth, we have numerous explicit examples of direct prayer to the Mother of God, for example in the writings of St. Ambrose, as well as by St. Epiphanius. (10)
>
>As already referred to, the most complete ancient prayer to the Blessed Mother historically preserved is the Sub Tuum Praesidium (250 A.D.):
>
>We fly to your patronage,O holy Mother of God,despise not our petitionsin our necessities,but deliver us from all dangers.O ever glorious and blessed Virgin.
That prayer is what the Memorare is based on.
Here is an article on early church fathers and why they do ask saints for intercession. They talk about praying with the saints, and that it is good.
Here is an article detailing quotes demonstrating the early church fathers knew celibacy was better, especially for priests!
>St. Epiphanius
>
>Holy Church respects the dignity of the priesthood to such a point that she does not admit to the diaconate, the priesthood, or the episcopate, no nor even to the subdiaconate, anyone still living in marriage and begetting children. She accepts only him who if married gives up his wife or has lost her by death, especially in those places where the ecclesiastical canons are strictly attended to (Panarion [A.D. 376]).
Celibacy is better, just like Paul says.
I recommend reading more of the early church fathers to get a better understanding of why their faith and these things are so Catholic. These sites all list citations you can chase down, but maybe you would also be interested in this book and this book?
I don't agree with your analysis. It is not contrary to the natural moral law or to the dignity of the human person for the state to deprive an offender of his life simply because that punishment is merited by the offender's actions and ultimately serves the common good, broadly defined.
I assume you are specifically referring to CCC 2267, which reads:
> Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
The highlighted portion is a prudential judgement by John Paul II that has unfortunately made its way into the Catechism with the appearance of doctrine.
Quoting an article by Edward Feser:
> In particular, it is claimed by some that John Paul taught that it is in principle immoral to resort to capital punishment except for the purpose of protecting others against the immediate physical danger posed by an offender. However, then-Cardinal Ratzinger explicitly denied that there was any change at the level of doctrinal principle. He affirmed that “the Holy Father has not altered the doctrinal principles which pertain to this issue” and that the revisions to the catechism reflected merely “circumstantial considerations… without any modification of the relevant doctrinal principles.”
In reality, the traditional teaching of the Church permits the use of capital punishment for purposes other than immediate self-defense, such as deterrence or simply retributive justice -- the latter of which is the base requirement for all punishment according to the natural law.
Probably one of the clearest statements of this traditional teaching comes from Pius XII:
> Even when it is a question of the execution of a condemned man, the State does not dispose of the individual's right to life. In this case it is reserved to the public power to deprive the condemned person of the enjoyment of life in expiation of his crime when, by his crime, he has already disposed himself of his right to live.
Or from the Catechism of the Council of Trent:
> Another kind of lawful slaying belongs to the civil authorities, to whom is entrusted power of life and death, by the legal and judicious exercise of which they punish the guilty and protect the innocent. The just use of this power, far from involving the crime of murder, is an act of paramount obedience to this Commandment which prohibits murder. The end of the Commandment is the preservation and security of human life. Now the punishments inflicted by the civil authority, which is the legitimate avenger of crime, naturally tend to this end, since they give security to life by repressing outrage and violence.
Edward Feser and Joseph Bessette wrote a great book on this topic.
It's hard to comprehend how much God loves us. He can do nothing but love us. A mother's love is the closest you could get to understanding the amount of love God has for us. Still some mothers can abandon their children but Jesus said "Even if your mother forgets her son, I would not forget you". I am definitely not an example and most Christians are not. If you are able to keep God's will as your main goal and love others with the love God has given you, you would probably become a saint. All these questions were answered by reading a book I received from my teacher called Youcat. It has around 500 questions that most people have like - why does God allow evil? why is the Genesis so innacurate? what do childless couples do? etc. It will take very long to explain so I'll link a copy that you can buy https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1586175165/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521260398&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=youcat&dpPl=1&dpID=31ybs9z9ZDL&ref=plSrch
I really want to thank you for letting me vent some things I keep thinking about all the time.
This can answer most of your concerns.
Coincidentally today (Tuesday August 8), I listened to the Dennis Prager radio show, and in the third hour, Dennis interviewed Edward Feser and Joseph Bessette, the authors of the book "By Man Shall His Blood Be Shed: A Catholic Defense of Capital Punishment".
It's not a website, but I recommend forking out the $15 bucks for the Youcat or asking a parish for one.
It is not my #1 favorite resource for all things Catholic, but it makes very complex mysteries palatable in a fairly decent way. I used it for part of my RCIA lessons at one point.
Unfortunately there have been and still are proponents of the death penalty in the Catholic Church, arguing along retributive ideas like By Man Shall His Blood Be Shed. But see Christians & the Death Penalty for a rebuttal.
Jesus commandment us again and again to grant forgiveness to our trespassers, e.g.[Matthew 5:38-39], [Matthew 6:12], [Matthew 18:21-22], and Paul explicitly warns against vengeance [Romans 12:19].
Of course, you can try to argue that "justice must be served" even if forgiveness is granted or something similar, but that's not how the Early Christians understood the Jesus commandments. See above linked article by David Bentley Hart for a brief overview.
Youcat: Youth Catechism of the Catholic Church and YOUCAT Bible It's filled with engaging photos, clever and fun illustrations, insightful sidebar quotes from great thinkers, Catholic saints and leaders, past and present, and young people living their faith today. It includes helpful introductions to the books of the Bible and short, easy-to-understand commentaries by some of today's top Bible teachers.
It may be helpful to read up on the process of Discernment. I'm sure there are good guides on the internet, and I think the methods outlined in The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything, which is excellent on a number of levels, are very helpful and very easy for a beginner to grasp.
I would not rely on "Catholic Answers." Others may differ, but I find it more chastening than illuminating.
There's an old book floating around called, "Why Do Catholics Do That"? which might serve as a starting point for the curious.
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Do-Catholics-That/dp/0345397266
For people who are merely taunting and do not really want an answer, there's no harm in stating your observation, i.e., "It sounds like you already have made up your mind. If you want to understand more, let me know, and we can make time for a discussion." (In the interim, study up!)
I also find James Martin's book a gem, as he is so accessible and yet accurate at the same time:
https://www.amazon.com/Jesuit-Guide-Almost-Everything-Spirituality/dp/0061432695
Thanks! Will check it out. I was reading The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everything: A Spirituality for Real Life and it has lots of gems. Specifically the part of contemplation and using your imagination to see life of Jesus. As a friend. The paradigm shifts were amazing to say the least. Stoicism too has some good stuff.
I would start with this book, I found it to be both funny and spiritually enriching. http://www.amazon.ca/The-Jesuit-Guide-Almost-Everything/dp/0061432695
You don't have to be religious to read and enjoy this either: "The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everything." I really liked the bit on the Examens and living simply - which is pretty much the bulk of the book.
>you imbecile
I can already tell this is going to be fun.
>Jesus has literally ZERO contemporary historical data.
That's not what you asked for. You asked for peer-reviewed arguments for the historical existence of Jesus, of which I said there are thousands, and to which I said you'd have a much more difficult time finding the opposite--- peer reviewed articles and books arguing that Jesus was entirely a myth.
>I’ll wait for those libraries of sources you have.
Where do you want to start?
Probably the best place for you to start is with Bart Ehrman, a leading scholar of on the development of Christianity, and he's also a popular skeptic speaker and writer. In addition to publishing he's written popular books about how many of the books of the Bible were forgeries, and how the belief that Jesus was divine developed in early Christianity, he also wrote an entire book laying out the widely accepted case that Jesus was likely a real historical person, written directly to skeptical lay people like yourself.
If you want a great introduction to the scholarly debate about the historical Jesus, you could start here or here. I also think Dale Allison's work is great critical look at some of the issues at work in the debate. There are lots of historical reconstructions of Jesus' life. Some of the more popular ones like Marcus Borg and John Dominic Crossan tend to sell books to liberal Christian audiences, so I've always thought E.P. Sanders treatment was perferable. I'll spare you the links to scholars who identify as orthodox Christians, like Luke Timothy Johnson or N.T. Wright. It sounded like you specifically wanted more scholarly sources and not popular books, so you could just look at the scholarly journal dedicated to the study of the historical Jesus. Or the Jesus Seminar. Or either of the following Introductions to the New Testament textbooks which are used in secular universities throughout the english speaking world:
Introduction to the New Testament by Mark Allen Powell
Introduction to the New Testament by Bart Ehrman
These are the ones I'm personally most familiar with. There are tons more like Geza Vermes and Amy Jill Levine I haven't read and I'm not as familiar with.
But I'm not telling you anything you wouldn't learn in any basic 101 intro to New Testament Class. The academic consensus is that regardless of what you think about him as a religious figure, it is extremely likely that there was a first century Jew named Jesus who started a faith movement that led to him being crucified. Why do scholars think this? Because by the time Paul started writing his letters 20 years later there was a growing, spreading religious movement that worship a crucified Jew named Jesus as their messiah, and given critical analysis of the texts produced by this movement, some of which are now in the New Testament, there really doesn't exist a coherent argument for the development of this movement that doesn't include the existence of a first century Jew named Jesus who was crucified.
I highly recommend The Historical Figure of Jesus by E.P. Sanders.
http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Figure-Jesus-E-Sanders/dp/0140144994/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256229581&sr=1-1
Bart has a "bad" reputation among Christian circles, even though most people have never even head his books.
I would suggest The Historical Figure of Jesus by E.P. Sanders.
Sanders is a very well respected scholar. He is humble, honest, and fairly "middle of the road". I've even seen The Historical Figure of Jesus on some bookshelves belonging to Christians, even though Sanders does not believe in miracles and discusses contradictions in the bible.
You may want to read Merton's Seven Storey Mountain, which is about how he became a Trappist monk.
http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Storey-Mountain-Thomas-Merton/dp/0156010860
A link about becoming a Trappist monk:
http://www.spencerabbey.org/becoming.html
PS: These are the guys who, among other things, make jam. I've visited, and they don't actually wear monk's outfits when working on the farm, in case you were wondering.
Three of my favorite Catholic books:
Flannery O'Connor - The Complete Stories
Walker Percy - The Message in the Bottle: How Queer Man Is, How Queer Language Is, and What One Has to Do With the Other
Joseph Ratzinger - Introduction to Christianity
edit--A fourth,
Thomas Merton - Seven Storey Mountain
Redemptoris Missio - This encyclical kick started my passion for evangelization. St. JP2, 'nuff said
Forming Intentional Disciples - I truly believe that this book is going to transform the way parishes and individuals approach their methods of evangelization.
Evangelical Catholicism - This book gave me the most comprehensive vision for how the popes of the 20th century began a movement that will fully take root in 21st century Catholicism. It challenged the way I express my faith and provided a vision for priesthood and married life that affects the world by living lives radically transformed by Christ.
Evangelii Gaudium - Pope Francis rounds out my essential texts on Catholics living lives that evangelize. He gives a compelling vision for how our Catholic witness starts with an encounter with Christ, that leads to a profound joy and requires us to reach out to others.
I Believe In Love - This book was my introduction to St Therese. The series of reflections reinvigorated my prayer life, introduced me to Mary, and inspired my attention to Christ being present in my daily life.
Catholicism - This is my go to book when people ask me for an introduction to Catholicism. Fr Barron gives a phenomenal explanation of how the Church is not an organization of rules, but rather a living, breathing witness of Christ.
I would recommend Catholicism: A Journey to the Heart of the Faith. It's a great overview of how Catholics think. Specifically, it also includes a few topics that you and Catholics might disagree on such as the Eucharist, the nature of the Church, and the saints.
http://amzn.com/0307720527
The best way, I feel, is to read a summarization of the discourse. Read every volume in Frederick Copleston's A History of Western Philosophy. From there, delve into a specific philosopher—the obvious starting point is Plato, which is what I recommend.
I second the suggestion of the Historical Introduction to Philosophy by Albert B. Hakim and there is also A Historical Introduction to Philosophy: Texts and Interactive Guides. I used the latter in an intro course and it worked really well. More detailed and thorough (and much less expensive per volume) are the Coplestone volumes, such as: A History of Philosophy, Vol. 1: Greece and Rome From the Pre-Socratics to Plotinus. My advice: go to the library (or bookstore, or online bookstore), look at the B72 C60 section, leaf through whatever history of philosophy books that they have, choose the one you like best in terms of language and lay out and what not, and get busy!
You might want to look into Christian mysticism, such as the Orthodox monastic tradition, Quakers, etc. This is a great book: http://www.amazon.com/The-Mountain-Silence-Orthodox-Spirituality/dp/0385500920/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396975837&sr=8-1&keywords=mountain+of+silence
The Monastic Orders saw themselves as communities for people who want to go beyond superficial "belief." They don't see belief in God or Jesus in the same way the mainstream does. To believe is to put one's trust, one's entire Being, into God. It's only our modern, materialistic civilization that has such a shallow evidence/belief duality (i.e. "you can't have faith without evidence, that's the definition of faith...") Monastic Orders always emphasize the importance of experiencing God, to know that he exists, not just believe it. A biologist uses a microscope, an astronomer a telescope, and a monk uses the heart. The heart must be changed in order to experience God. Then we can find answers to the existential questions that plague us.
I'm not saying you should become a monk. However, I want to give you another possible avenue to explore. I don't think your questions can be answered through Apologetics or theology. Deep spiritual questions can only be answered by the spirit. Good luck.
I think I'd suggest something like The Mountain of Silence. It isn't an apologetics work per se, but I think it goes a fair ways into the "why bother?" question. One of the things that really bugs me about a lot of Christianity these days is that it treats the Faith as a set of intellectual propositions that must be evaluated and assented to, but otherwise has little overall impact beyond that. This book documents the experience of a secular sociology professor who comes to realize the value of all this religion stuff beyond that rationalist approach to faith.
Here are three books I absolutely love for dipping your feet into Christian theology:
The Mountain of Silence by Kyriacos Markides might help with this.
Edit: I would recommend this book to anyone interested in Orthodoxy regardless of what you're trying to learn about, but one thing it helped me with was the issue you raise in the OP.
I don't have to rewrite it for an Orthodox perspective. This book covers the main aspects of Orthodox spirituality much better than I ever could.
But if I wanted it to be more authentic, I could just change "man from Crete" to "man from whatever Western culture where Catholicism is prevalent."
I got these:
The Orthodox Church by Kallistos Ware
The Orthodox Way by Kallistos Ware
The Mountain of Silence by Kyriacos C. Markides
The Sayings of the Desert Fathers
I'm still reading them but I hear that this selection will cover a lot of bases. Check eBay too, they can found pretty cheap.
I found this link & this book to be helpful
You might be interested in this popular work
Brant Pitre talks about this in his Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist.
\> First, is whether a theologian has at least, lain out a theory as to the interesting effects and implications of sapient alien life.
Yes. In fact Nicholas of Cusa, born in 1401 A.D. in Kues, Germany, was a Cardinal who theorized that alien life could exist on other planets or even the sun and that they would be made of "different matter" than us. Sounds almost like a Star Trek plot with energy aliens living on a star... but this was something that a Catholic cleric and theologian speculated about 600 years ago.
Now more recently Guy Consolmagno, a Gesiut and Director of the Vatican Observatory, and President of the Vatican Observatory Foundation, wrote recently a book called "Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial?: . . . and Other Questions from the Astronomers' In-box at the Vatican Observatory" where he deals with this question (and yes he said he would baptize aliens).
I'm sure some other have also thought about it, but I can't recall any at the moment.
..
Another important point is that the Church has ALWAYS believe in aliens! What are angels if not aliens? Not made of matter like us, but still non-human intelligent creatures. So fundamentally there is no objection whether God could have created other - possibly material - intelligent beings.
Of course it does rise some questions regarding salvation (does each alien species get an alien Jesus? Are some species simply unfallen? Etc...)
...
\> Such as, the differnece and implications of another sapient species nature and soul.
In principle any material being with a rational soul is "**human"**. Not human in a biological sense, but in a metaphysical sense, i.e. created in the image of God.
While animal and plants have (vegetative and animal) souls which are not rational and also die at the death of the body, humans and intelligent aliens, are transcendent. We share also some other characteristics which are (analogously) present in God. That is why "man is in God image" and so would any intelligent alien.
So while the Church has never really thought too much about something that is mere speculation for now, its theology does not prohibit that aliens exist.
...
\> Second, is whether you all would like to see me write some amateurish theories on these.
Sure :)
You may really enjoy this book. It was written by Jesuit scientists, who discuss the reconciliation of faith and science.
This book is an indispensable starting place for research for thoughts of the Early Christian Fathers. I'm on mobile in the car right now but I think you'll find something in St. Iranaeus about how agreement with the See of Rome being necessary.
[Crossing the Tiber](http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Tiber-Evangelical-Protestants-Historical/dp/0898705770 "Also available for Kindle!"), by Stephen K. Ray. It's very well researched; sometimes the footnotes and references take up most of the page!
dessinemoiunmouton referenced this elsewhere in the thread, and I agree: [Faith of the Early Fathers](http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Early-Fathers-Three--Set/dp/0814610250/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320271030&sr=1-1 "Also available for Kindle!"), by Jurgens. It's a three-volume set, and best used as a reference, instead of a straight-read. Of immense value is the doctrinal index, which lists various elements of theology, and then points you to the relevant historical writings!
I would probably recommend these two books as a departure point if you want to hear about this from the other side:
https://www.amazon.com/Usual-Suspects-Answering-Anti-Catholic-Fundamentalists/dp/0898707730/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1517603144&sr=1-1&keywords=anti+catholicism+fundamentalism
And
https://www.amazon.com/Catholicism-Fundamentalism-Attack-Romanism-Christians/dp/0898701775/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0898701775&pd_rd_r=45S23QE1FB6PKCRXVQHQ&pd_rd_w=3zXoj&pd_rd_wg=qVKit&psc=1&refRID=45S23QE1FB6PKCRXVQHQ
I hope it goes without saying that if you ever want to directly message me to chat I would be more than happy to.
Ah, Independent Fundamentalist Baptist / Christian Funamentalist Goes hand in hand with KJVO.
Long story short, it is harmful.
While this is more of a Catholic POV, I recommend you check out Ctaholic and Fundamentalism from a library if possible. Glance whatever that you can that you find useful/
The First Way / Thomistic God do have the classic divine attributes usually attributed to God. And from that position, Aquinas spends a lot of arguments building the bridge to Jesus and the personal God. It's all very logically argued, and even people who don't believe in it have found it refreshing to read from the Summa. However, like I warned, you should never touch it without a guide, such as an annotated one.
"A Shorter Summa" by Kreeft is a decent introduction to Aquinas. Here.
This one is supposed to be pretty good. I haven’t read it, but I believe it’s basically a shorter and more concise version of his previous book “Summa of the Summa”
Also, this post from this sub should also be helpful.
Peter Kreeft's Shorter Summa of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa is short enough to read in a couple days.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0898704383/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_yJx-wb54M8KZ2
And C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity explains the Christian concept of God.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0060652926/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_-Kx-wbD04HZK2
Don't forget Josephus.
The Christ myth theory is a joke in academia. I'm inclined to have more faith in people who spend a good chunk of their lives looking through the evidence than people who have an ideological motive to claim he never existed coughSamHarriscough.
If you genuinely want to investigate arguments for his existence I recommend The Historical Figure of Jesus, written by a 'skeptic' and widely agreed to be the best starting point for any serious academic research on the subject.
This book I found was pretty good in summing up the political and social climate of Jesus http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Figure-Jesus-P-Sanders/dp/0140144994
Can someone say why this was downvoted, it seemed like a good book, the Straight Dope used (which is where I heard of it from) is the guy like a Nazi or something?
not sure if you mean i take dmt but check out book written by vatican chief astronomer(my dad actually went to jesuit high school with him). i bought the book for my dad as a kind of joke.
https://www.newsweek.com/god-and-et-vatican-astronomer-would-baptize-aliens-if-they-ask-757686?amp=1
Would You Baptize an Extraterrestrial?: . . . and Other Questions from the Astronomers' In-box at the Vatican Observatory https://www.amazon.com/dp/0804136955/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_bVnnDbY5WY89Z
Yes - see here.
Well, I'm a Catholic. My Nephew is Converting to Islam, he is a big reader. While talking to him in addition to the Quran (which I own and have read, the Maulana Muhammad Ali translation) he had many books by Islamic thinkers. That kid makes me proud and he is only seventeen.
In fact, we just came from visiting him and he could not eat with us because he is fasting for Ramadan. We Muslims and Catholics are ancient Churches so we welcome each other. I'm not encouraging you to Convert to Catholicism because I feel Islam is a Holy Church on it's own and it would be going from one Holy Church to another but you would be welcome to our Church if you did.
Avoid authors like Scott Hahn, (Or any Calvinist Protestant Convert Author discussing Catholicism) they are what I call Calvinist Converts. But the book to read to understand the path of a Catholic is Thomas Merton's Seven Story Mountain.
https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Storey-Mountain-Thomas-Merton/dp/0156010860/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526774555&sr=8-1&keywords=seven+story+mountain+thomas+merton
We as Muslims and Catholics share the Lord's Prayer, here is an article written by a Muslim on the subject:
http://aboutislam.net/reading-islam/understanding-islam/lords-prayer-leads-islam/
Here's an article I found that shows some things we have in common:
http://mvslim.com/8-religious-beliefs-that-catholics-and-muslims-share-with-each-other/
You will find Cradle Catholics (Catholics born in the religion not converting from another religion) will be very welcoming to you. So, any time a Catholic is a jerk ask them, "are you a Convert."
Reply and I'd love to have a deeper conversation.
Blessed be to God.